sim idea's

[piggy]

thought i would start a thread for us long suffering trainers to put forward idea's to make marks job even harder :D

my biggest whinge is jockeys, either youve got a great jockey on a donkey or a complete novice on your stable star and by the time youve trained him up the seasons over, what about stable jockeys or an apprentice you can train up and who can ride any of your horses , could be given attributes like the horses i.e. stamina, use of the whip, finding a gap, consistancy, star quality etc , i don't know how much difference jockeys make to the result of a race but if it's significant it would be nice to have your own jockey to use on your fancied runner that week.
what do you all think?

[mathare]

It's certainly an interesting idea Piggy.

I have thought for a while now that the jockeys side of the game is one that could be improved. It seems odd to me that the jockey stat is part of the horses stats and wondered if they could be separated.

Maybe have as many jockeys as you have horses and train them up like you do horses. For each jockey in each week you either pair them with a horse you have running or train them up like you do the horses.

The other option is to just pay for a jockey for each runner you have out there. Better jockeys cost more and will only race for you if your stabel reputation is high enough. Or the price they charge is linked into your stable reputation as well. The jockeys could have a rating of their own, the higher the rating the more expensive they are and if you are a small, crapppy stable they will charge a fortune to ride for you.

They don't need names really, just a rating. So in the weekly instructions you enter something like:
The Mariner - Race 14 (York) - 85 Jockey
You'd then get an 85 rated jockey on that horse in that race and it would cost you £100 or something

[Nick777]

I've spent a lot of time training up my jockeys. It would be unfair to lose what I had added to their ratings because some people haven't bothered to train their jocks. If the jockey ratings go, I want some form of compensation for the effort I have put into training them all.....

[bigcumba]

Have to agree with Nick here - given that in real life we usually take into account a jockey's record and form... perhaps at some point we could change the jockeys from horse to horse within the stable but I can see that being a huge increase in admin for Mark.... remember we're already at a 10/11 day week in the sim....

[mathare]

Good point BigC

[TheOldhamWhisper]

I agree with both sides of the argument to some degree - yes, it is infuriating having your stable 'superstar' ridden by a mediochre jockey but as Nick points out, training is the answer to that one. However, if you have to train the jockey every week, you run the risk of your horses stats dropping behind others (and this is from experience!).

One idea I have been toying with, but not sure if anyone would agree to it or how easy it is to implement, is a 'one off' stat swap - this should be costly in some way (either financially or stat-wise). At first I thought a straight forward cash payment, but this disadvantages the smaller yards. The other thought was the horse becomes 'injured' for 3 weeks (no training or racing) in order for the stat swap to take effect.

Example 1:

You have stats on ground of F78 G12 S100 H97 - and a Jockey stat of 42 - the Firm ground stat is effectively 'useless' as the horse would normally run in the rain. You could stat swap the Firm for the Jockey at a cost of 3 weeks inactivity. The 3 week rule is to ensure that trainers would only do this if it was really worth it - no point in swapping two stats with less than 24 points difference - you could train the stat quicker!

Using the same stats above, you decide that you would like to increase the number of grounds the horse can go on - you could stat swap Good for Heavy (or Firm) so that the stats are 'together' giving the horse more flexibility.

A final use would be for the trainers who suddenly realise that they will 'lose' their 'superstar' at the end of the season because they misjudged the aging and it will not have enough points to continue. They could stat swap to increase the aging stat - useful if you have a 'spare' 60 stat in the distance bracket which you never race at because the horse is better over further/shorter distances.

[mathare]

That is a very interesting idea Oldham. And one I like.

It would need careful thought as to how to manage the stat swap, be it something you pay for or as you say the horse is forced to miss 3 weeks of action but in principle I do like the idea very much

[bigcumba]

Yes that is a good idea Oldham - very interesting indeed!

[piggy]

i didnt mean change anything but add a stable jockey that you could train up or use, don't think i'm explaining myself very well, this is what i was thinking every stable gets a jockey with random atributes and you can use him/her to ride any of your horses [obviously only one a week] or you can train to improve them, a star jockey so to speak, you would still have to train your other jocks up

[Onlyforfun]

I see Nicks point but from the other side at the start of season two we were led to believe that jockey retainers were on their way so I for one stopped training jockeys. Not my problem if he doesn't pay attention! :hearty

[Workshy]

I havent trained my jocks much and dont plan to, I think they're one of the lesser important stats in the game. Just a hunch I guess. If I'm wrong, I could pay dearly.

[markwales]

I must have completely missed this thread when it was first posted.....Some interesting Jockey ideas, especially the dedicated stable jock that is given to every stable but can only ride one horse per week.

[markwales]

Oldhams idea is great, and one that I'm definately considering.....only one exception...the AGEING swap.

Ageing is a big part of the game, and I feel this would detract from it's purpose. SO maybe a stat swap excluding ageing would be the way to go.

[samantha1303]

I'm with Nick on the Jockey subject, we knew what stats we had to train on and it was up to us which we chose. I had some really useless jocks like 2, 4, 14, I trained them up, if we can just suddenly buy a jockey to use that is unfair as I could have used all those training sessions on ground or distance.

[samantha1303]

In order to make everything a little easier, I will try to put all the ideas, and comments about them together right from the beginning.

[Nick777]

Marky, lets not gippo the figures because people haven't bothered to train their jockeys or haven't bothered to age them. We all knew at the start that jockey had an effect and they could have trained them...but no they added to the other attributes and now want a free ticket to the weak attributes.

I will accept a jockey swap (or something similar), but I want all the jockey training I did put to other attributes. I have kept records on excel of exactly how many points I may have "wasted" on jockeys and I would expect the full values to be added to areas of my choice.......in fact some of my horses would benefit greatly from this....

I think SAM and many others would agree....

[Nick777]

Finally, how much does the jockey influence the race...it feels not at all since I have a jockey rated in excess of 100 but I never see the comment "jockey rode this to perfection", or "jockey was to blame....

I also wonder about other attributes like temperament and attitude...I've trained my horses to have the right characteristics...are we now going to change these too...?? I think many have not bothered with these attributes and I'm beginning to wish I had not bothered with them too since they seem to make no difference...

[TheOldhamWhisper]

I would have to disagree with the 'mental' stats not having any effect. I have seen horses from season 1 blossom in season 2 with improvement in temprament and attitude (and to some extent consistency). Almost all training for Buddy Kerai went into attitude and consistency (along with soft ground training to reduce the chances of wrong ground), and the horse went from complete donkey in Season 1 to G1 winner in Season 2. If the horse has the potential, good training will get the best out of them.

I am for the idea of a stable jockey who can ride only one horse per week. Every player has at least one horse who's jockey could be improved. The training on the other horses will not be going to waste as this 'perk' is limited. You could even just use it on the juveniles if that is what you wish.

As it takes many hours of work to produce race comments, Mark restricts them to the early season juvenile races to give people a chance to find out if they have a 'gem' on their hands. I am going to start work on a script to automatically generate the comments based on the figures Mark supplies - I will have no idea on results as Mark will have to add the final details. This means I can continue as a player. Hopefully this will be tested during Season 3 and implemented when it is completed.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Oops - Buddy never won a G1 - but finished 4th in the Leger.

[samantha1303]

Hi guys , for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, I trawled through previous posts and condensed all ideas and questions about changing the sim , either that Mark asked, Mark answered or Mark announced.

It is now near the top of this section as a sticky post.Called sim ideas and alterations.
It is closed to keep it separate.

If anyone wants to discuss any of the points that were made in that thread Oldham started a thread called ideas and alterations comments, this is also near the top and is sticky.

[plater]

Mark, I'm with Nick on this one having been training a lot on the atributes, and feel that the changes to any method of training shoud be implimented from a seasonal point, so trainers that have gone down this route are not penalised for the way they have trained in the past.

As season 2, two year olds have been trained maybe you could limit any changes to season 3 stable additions onwards.

EDIT: When I pressed enter I thought about 12 Fallons and Dettories riding in the same race, don't happen does it :rolleyes: :)

Thanks Plater

[TheOldhamWhisper]

...I thought about 12 Fallons and Dettories riding in the same race
I think that is taking it a bit far. The proposed rule change was for 1 jockey available for 1 race - and for a high cost.

The proposed stat swap is not to let people gain an advantage (as Mark has already stated, the aging stat will not be eligible if it is implemented).

...but I want all the jockey training I did put to other attributes. I have kept records on excel of exactly how many points I may have "wasted" on jockeys and I would expect the full values to be added to areas of my choice
...or I'm taking my ball home? I'm sorry Nick, but a comment like that deserves an appropriate answer.

[Nick777]

:clp nice one Oldham and point taken.

The idea of one race, one Jockey, at high cost gets my vote. I just don't want to see people that have made minimal effort on areas (such as ageing) escape due to poor management of the stats.

What ever Mark decides I will accept it and carry on since it is so enjoyable...

[mathare]

I think that is taking it a bit far. The proposed rule change was for 1 jockey available for 1 race - and for a high cost.

How high a cost though? If you have a stable jockey should he not be able to ride any horse that week for free or at most a cheap cost. He's contracted to you and you can choose his ride.

I have had some thoughts on this and it may complicate matters initially but simplify them in the long run, see what you think.

Each stable can hire a stable jockey at the start of a season. You pay £x at the start of the season and he is yours till the end of the year. The jockey's stat will be random but will be guaranteed to meet a minimum, maybe 65 or something. That jockey can either ride one of your horses or be trained. If he rides then his mount has the jockey stat swapped to that of your stable jock for that race. If he is trained he gets between 2 and 5 points on his jockey stat and is unable to ride that week.

This could be improved/developed in the following ways:
1) The jockey stats are known before the hiring starts and it is an auction with sealed bids for a jockey's services. So a 95 jockey may go for a few grand but a 65 for a few hundred.
2) Stables are allowed up to 2 or 3 stable jockeys, the limit depending on reputation
3) You have first refusal on a jockey for next season if you had him this year
4) Jockeys stand a better chance of staying with you for another season if your reputation hasn't decreased

This way you are paying up front for the jockey's service rather than per race. The other option would be when training fees are introduced we effectively say that part of that fee is paying the jockey that comes with each horse. If you want to swap jockeys on a particular runner you pay a jockey fee for that mount for that week. Again the price could directly relate to the ability of the jockey or it could be a flat fee for a randomly generated jockey with a guaranteed minimum standard and the best jockeys could only ride for the most reputable stables or something.

Thoughts?