Diet to compliment exercise (muscle repair)

[Workshy]

I understand I should be taking on protein after resistence exercise but how much? In what time period? What other food stuffs, vitamins, liquids should I be taking on? Is it possible to overdose?

Currently I tend to have a tin of tuna & a glass of milk after exercise, having attempted to consume carbs an hour or 2 before exercise.

Reason I ask is because I'm finding it takes my muscles (particularly pecs & neck) 3 days+ to be in a fit state to work them again. I'm sure a few years ago this wasnt the case!

Any other tips are fully welcomed, For the record I tend to do mainly free weights, close hand press ups & use a bullworker (for my abs, wings & back). Nothing too hectic!

[Fadetoblack]

never mind that...I say hello to ya...I give you welcome back rep...and still...NOTHING!

i dunno...these kids today...

[presto]

a tin of tuna has 26g of protein, this is a good ammount to take after training, i think it's best to eat about 20 mins after using the weight's as this is when your body needs it the most.

though if you are taking milk straight after - you could use a protein shake. i like the 'reflex instant whey (bananna)' - 20g of protein, and has the consistency / taste of 'nesquick' also 93 servings for £30 is cheap.

'creatine' also REALLY helps my recovery, i take it during my workout, and it helps to cut next day soreness, often the next day my muscles are recovered when i use this stuff - even if they are sore for 2/3 days without it. also the more protein you eat will lower muscle soreness the next day.

multi vitamins are fairly cheap, and the body dosn't get enough of them from everyday food (in general) so there always a worthwhile addition.

[sparkyminer]

a tin of tuna has 26g of protein, this is a good ammount to take after training, i think it's best to eat about 20 mins after using the weight's as this is when your body needs it the most.

though if you are taking milk straight after - you could use a protein shake. i like the 'reflex instant whey (bananna)' - 20g of protein, and has the consistency / taste of 'nesquick' also 93 servings for £30 is cheap.

'creatine' also REALLY helps my recovery, i take it during my workout, and it helps to cut next day soreness, often the next day my muscles are recovered when i use this stuff - even if they are sore for 2/3 days without it. also the more protein you eat will lower muscle soreness the next day.

multi vitamins are fairly cheap, and the body dosn't get enough of them from everyday food (in general) so there always a worthwhile addition.

Crap for building multi-gyms though.:laugh

[John]

Another bulker bites that dust! :spinning

I usually take this after each exercise:
http://www.fuelsport.co.uk/productPage.asp?pro=1011101

Promax Extreme, contains about 30g of protein per serving (sometimes I take it once in the morning and once before I go to bed too, giving 90g daily). It is only a supplement though, and should not be used in place of a meal; it should be taken around meals... if you decide to get some, don't pay £31.99 for it, you'll get it cheaper elsewhere! There are other muscle growth supplements aswell, particularly ones such as (un)flavoured Whey Isolate, or Progain/Cyclone which are similar to the Promax Extreme.

Best looking on http://www.myprotein.co.uk actually.

Other than that, you should be aiming to eat meat/fish that has high protein content... usually I'll try and have two chicken breasts and some pasta after a workout. I think two chicken breasts gives you about 70g of protein or thereabouts... and the pasta packs on the carb.

Hope this helps!

[Workshy]

never mind that...I say hello to ya...I give you welcome back rep...and still...NOTHING!

i dunno...these kids today...

Awww, sorry babe, come here gimme a big hug :spinning

[andyp]

I understand I should be taking on protein after resistence exercise but how much?

I have been told and read that for each kg you weigh, yous hould eat 2-3g of protein in order to bulk your muscle!

I weigh 87kg, so theoretically i should eat between 174g to 261g of protein a day! :yikes: Its pretty tough to do that consistently... but it works! Remember any protein shake / supplement really does help for this.

Hope this helps mate

[sparkyminer]

Bloody hell. I weigh over 18 stone, thats over 114kg.:yikes:
That's a lot of protein.:)

[Workshy]

Crikey, I can envisage a nickname of fish breath coming along if I eat that much tuna!

In my cheapskate nature, I also stir dried skimmed milk into my skimmed milk for more protein, oh deary me! :)

NEXT QUERY:

Can anyone recommend a good stretch for my neck area, specifically the muscle joining shoulder & neck. Excuse my poor human biology terminology.

[presto]

slowly rotate your neck (head) clockwise, 25 times. - then do it anti-clockwise.

also 'bob' your head forwards, backward's, left, right - as far as it will comfortably go, - do this for 5 times in each position.

[Workshy]

Thanks Presto.

When trying to find out how much protein was in my salmon dinner, I stumbled across this reading: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_4_20/ai_n6002944

[Littlegaz]

Reason I ask is because I'm finding it takes my muscles (particularly pecs & neck) 3 days+ to be in a fit state to work them again. I'm sure a few years ago this wasnt the case!
Okay, I've stayed away from the fitness threads since posting my "beached whale with Swedish Babes" pic on another thread because it's probably destroyed my credibility, but believe me I didn't always look like that so here goes:

Worky - 3 days+ for recovery isn't a problem if you're training hard. In fact it may be a little short - the best results I had were over a four year period with the following split:

Saturday - shoulders & arms
Sunday - legs
Tuesday - chest & back

ie - each bodypart only once per week. But we (me and my training partner) did pretty much destroy those muscles with each workout and could still feel the soreness four days, maybe five days later.

At the start I found myself helplessly buried under an 80k bar on the bench press (always free weights only). After a while I was repping comfortably with 140k.

For beginner following a full body workout each time then three days is probably OK. However, if you've become more advanced and are using a split workout, three days per bodypart almost certainly isn't enough rest.

[Profit Seeker]

No disrespect to Andyp but 2-3g of protein per pound of bodyweight is pure balony! 1g is more like it. Also, you still want plenty of carbs after your workout along with the protein so that your body doesn't thieve energy that it needs from the protein.

Also, disregard anything you read in a glossy mag. Creatine, protein shakes are totally not needed. If you want a nice protein shake post workout or indeed anytime, simply buy some skimmed milk powder to add to your milk, just as effective at much less the price! :rolleyes: Eat butter instead of margarine, or niether. What's this they say marg is healthier than butter? Pure bull:censored: Far too many marketing scams going on to send people the totally wrong way. What Gaz said is right, the recovery period for a person with an average genetic structure and nervous system should be a minimum of 4 days. Every single super bodybuilt athlete you see on tv or in a glossy mag has either an miraculous genetic structure which exists in probably 1 in 10,000 people, or is on drugs.

In answer to your question, you should probably intake the same amount after a workout as every one of your other 3-5 meals has contained. 60% carb, 30% protein, 10% fat, give or take for different people or what you're trying to achieve.

[presto]

Creatine, protein shakes are totally not needed. If you want a nice protein shake post workout or indeed anytime, simply buy some skimmed milk powder to add to your milk, just as effective at much less the price!

they may not be needed but they certainly help.
the protein shake i use cost's about 32p go - and can be used as convenient meal replacement. they also contain other micro-nutrient's the body need's, not to mention glutamine, BCAA etc....
creatine is also a proven aid in training and recovery, also pretty cheap.

[Profit Seeker]

Helpful yes, but unnecessary. I would use them if I could afford it, simply for convenience and corner cutting, but I can gaurantee, that not affording it and not buying them, would see absolutely no difference in my weight and strength gain. :)

[John]

They're a side item, an assist to your diet. They do help you to gain weight because of the protein content. In each glass of Promax Exteme I'm getting 30g of protein, which is helping my muscles build much faster and stronger than they would if I didn't take it at all. And it's not so true what you say about the people in glossy magazines. Read any interview on the "skinny guy who got big" and you might not be so cynical.

[Littlegaz]

Every single super bodybuilt athlete you see on tv or in a glossy mag has either an miraculous genetic structure which exists in probably 1 in 10,000 people, or is on drugs.
Or, more likely, has both the genetics and the drugs.
And it's not so true what you say about the people in glossy magazines. Read any interview on the "skinny guy who got big" and you might not be so cynical.
Have to disagree mate - unless your perception of "big" differs from mine. IMHO, the public and tabloid perception of the steroid world vastly underestimates just how common the usage of anabolics is and how easily obtainable they are for those who know where to look.

That isn't to say that you can't make very solid and noticeable gains from a good training and diet program (as you seem to be doing - good blog :) ) but I share PS's cynical view on the "super physiques".

[presto]

just had a look at your dried milk powder PS, it cost's more and is less efective than a protein shake.

50g milk powder....29p
500ml milk............26p
milkshake powder...27p
TOTAL.................82p

values:
539 calories
35.2g protein
99.2g carbs
1.2g fat

2.3p per gram of protein
...................................................

reflex instant whey

25gm whey.......... 32p
500ml milk........... 26p
TOTAL.................58p

values
263 calories
36.5g protein
25.9g carbs
1.4g fat

1.6p per gram of protein

...............................................................................................

so there you go PS - protein powder far superior and cheaper than milk powder.

[Profit Seeker]

Where do you get your protein then? At £25 for 30 portions, that's 83p before you've even added the milk.

The mags do hold an element of truth, they're not altogether full of it, just about 90% of the time :D These magazines were designed purely to make money when drugs became most people's answer in the early seventies, or possibly earlier. If someone out there could be bothered with the lobng drawn out hard work, probably years worth, and spend the £ks financing it, they could probably get most of them banned.

Fact is, I know anyone on this forum would only ever want to build themselves the most natural and healthiest way possible. If that's the case, forget the mags. Not only do they promote drugs to the max on every other page, but alot of their routines and techniques for training will almost always at some point most definitely result in injury.

And that shake comparison is a bit off Presto. Where have you got milkshake powder from? Plus your whey powder shake has got few carbs in.

[Profit Seeker]

Looking on ebay that powder you quoted is miles cheaper than pro max! :ooo

[presto]

Where do you get your protein then? At £25 for 30 portions, that's 83p before you've even added the milk

http://www.affordablesupplements.co.uk/ns/products/detail1.asp?prodid=403 £32 for 90+ servings

And that shake comparison is a bit off Presto. Where have you got milkshake powder from? Plus your whey powder shake has got few carbs in.
'british institution of sport' website. the milkshake powder was included in there protein shake ingredient's.
the reduced carbs / calories are also far more prefrable in most cases.

to be honnest i have never read a fitness mag, but can imagine the dross they print. but i still feel supplement's have a place. even if it just is the £20 for a years supply of multi vitaimins.

i don't see what's wrong with using them either, the vast majority of the UK population - eat crap, drink crap and don't consume enough of the micro-nutrients the body needs to keep in peap shape. - a simple multi-vitamine could help out to some extent. supplement's are also perfectly safe to use. i would say nearly every proffesional athlete uses them.

Fact is, I know anyone on this forum would only ever want to build themselves the most natural and healthiest way possible

if people could build more strength, quicker, with less aches and pains in a healthy manner, for the cost of a few £ - then i beleive they would do so.

(i am not talking 'roids' when i am describing supplements btw)

[Profit Seeker]

I didn't know you could get powder that cheap. Multi-vitamins and whey protein are probably as genuine as you get. I've read/heard plenty of reports from real people that creatine did nothing at all for them. And as for the thousands of other supplements going, like diet loss pills, weight gaining pills etc they are just money makers.

Contrary to very, very bad advice, if you're suffering from aches and pains in the recovery period then you're doing something wrong. People saying "you haven't done a workout properly unless it burned like hell and you're sore for days" is yet another myth. :)

[John]

Fact is, I know anyone on this forum would only ever want to build themselves the most natural and healthiest way possible. If that's the case, forget the mags. Not only do they promote drugs to the max on every other page, but alot of their routines and techniques for training will almost always at some point most definitely result in injury.

I can't agree with you on that at all I'm afraid PS. How many of these magazines have you read, and which ones were they? Yes, they do advertise weight gain products and what not but you give me the name of any commerical magazine that doesn't have any product advertising in.

Can't agree with what you say about their routines either. The routines have been tried and tested and work. If people are getting injured from them, then they're pushing themselves too hard e.g. using weights that are too heavy.

I have only read Men's Health magazine and that has some extremely good information in... about diet, about exercise regimes, training methods all laid out well with diagrams to support it. Even a lot of it is accompanied by ways to avoid injury.

[John]

I've gotta log off now but there's some more things I'll add to that later.

[Profit Seeker]

I haven't read any of them. I am merely repeating expert's opinions who have been in the game since the 60s who write or used to write for Hard Gainer magazine, well it's a little booklet actually. It stopped circulation a while ago but they are always to hand for advice and they recommend specific back issues for beginners etc. They can be reached via their website www.hardgainer.com. They do recommend a few other mags and sites but can't remember any of them.

Having flicked through a few other mags in the past the first thing that springs to mind that the hardgainer guys are always slating, is their way over the top routines, time required to do them and at too many times a week. Only 5 or 6 exercises are ever needed for every muscle to reach it's maximum potential. The main ones being squats, dead lifts, bench press, chins, dips. You will always get plenty of success stories in the other mags, usually for one reason. Unless your workout and diet is a million miles out, and it wouldn't be that bad no matter what idiot you listened to, then you will always gain...to start with. But you will come to a dead end and will wonder why you can't progress any further. And I bet the glossy mags don't publish too many of those particular complaints!!

[Workshy]

This creatine stuff definately works, I'm not feeling anywhere near the pain I was a day after workout now. Just finished the loading period today.

On a side note and the main reason I've felt the need to post.....do banana smoothies and/or creatine make you fart like a champion? Last few days its almost been non stop and to be blunt, they stink horrid!!! This cant remain, I'll lose my friends/family...pets.

[Littlegaz]

do banana smoothies and/or creatine make you fart like a champion?
Yep :laugh . I think that the polite term on the list of potential side effects is "bloating". And that bloating - well, it's gotta be let out somewhere, innit :D

[Workshy]

Yep :laugh . I think that the polite term on the list of potential side effects is "bloating". And that bloating - well, it's gotta be let out somewhere, innit :D

:ooo Ohh bugger, I have an important engagement this weekend, what ill timing. These pop pops are like a big stinking punch in the nose. :ermmm

Great pic with the Sweeeedish girls 'little' Gaz :)

[Profit Seeker]

It certainly isn't down to bananas!! So must be the creatine. A powerlifter where I work stinks the whole factory out so maybe he's on the stuff too. This is what I found on the stuff.

"Some of the persons claim that creatine users are susceptible to cramps, muscle spasms, and some may even be prone to pulled muscles.
Persons taking creatine may also show allergic reactions like Itching or hives.
Sometimes, there may be swelling in your face or hands,
Some persons taking creatine said that they had some tingling sensation in their throat.
Consumption of creatine may cause sometimes cause Diarrhea or stomach problems.
You may sometimes experience trouble in breathing.
Creatine in some rare cases may also cause kidney stones.
Other Side Effects of Creatine may be:
You may experience chest tightness.
You may experience a weight gain. But, that from my point of view is not a bad effect it is a good effect as all weight lifters love to have more and more mass.
Water Retention.
You may notice some gas problems and bloating.
Heat Intolerance."

Also, creatine helps to create water retention in the muscle, same as steroids, what I regard as "fake" muscle.

All in all, I think I'd choose pure natural ta muchly :)

I'll get cracking, give it a year then we'll meet up for an arm wrestle :D

[presto]

never had a wind problem with creatine - but protein shakes really do give me a bit (lot) of wind.

[presto]

half thoes side effects you could probabbly find in normal everyday food PS. you don't see warnings on a pack of peanut's that say's 'WARNING PEANUTS CAN KILL'.

creatine is also natural in the body. - next you will be cutting out tap water PS because of all thoes nastie chemichals in it. infact unless you grow everything you eat yourselves organically, go around in a bio-suit steering well clear of mobile phone masts etc.... you will come into contact with load's of chemichals, so i don't see what the big deal is with supplements.

[Littlegaz]

Contrary to very, very bad advice, if you're suffering from aches and pains in the recovery period then you're doing something wrong. People saying "you haven't done a workout properly unless it burned like hell and you're sore for days" is yet another myth. :)
Wasn't going to bother but I've had a couple of Stella's (as part of my ongoing fitness program, you'll understand - you have to let go sometimes) so:

It isn't very, very bad advice. You just have to be able to distinguish the nature of the pain and that can only come from experience.

Creaking and/or cracking joints, neck (especially), back, shoulder, elbow, knee pain - BAD!!! STOP DOING WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE DOING NOW!

The usual soreness that comes from lactic acid buildup and challenging the muscles - GOOD!!!. It will happen after pretty much every workout when you start out, but then decrease as you go on to the point that the experienced trainers wake up with a big smile when it hurts the next morning, because they know they've hit the spot.

The term is "progressive resistance weight training". To progress, you have to constantly increase the weights from what you were previously able to manage, and that's going to hurt a little bit.

[John]

Creaking and/or cracking joints, neck (especially), back, shoulder, elbow, knee pain - BAD!!! STOP DOING WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE DOING NOW!

I have very mild scoliosis (curvature of the spine, but you can't really tell) and sometimes get a cracking of joints (feels like shoulder blades but could be something near it) on the left side of my neck/back when I'm using the shoulder press machine at the gym. I think nothing of it, because I know my back is straight and I'm using the correct posture. I just think the weights are maybe too high for me, but I can roll out all my sets/reps without any problems (except lots of effort and a bit of tension). I just get a little pain from it... reading what you put has made me think.

[sparkyminer]

I've been pre-season training since 9th July and I've worked really hard, no supplements mind you:wink , and I'm probably as fit as I've ever been, scary:yikes: .
We played our first game on Saturday and on Monday morning I was wlking round like Douglas Bader. As Littlegaz says, the aching and soreness is good due to the fact that you've stretched the muscles beyond where they normally go.

[Profit Seeker]

half thoes side effects you could probabbly find in normal everyday food PS. you don't see warnings on a pack of peanut's that say's 'WARNING PEANUTS CAN KILL'.

creatine is also natural in the body. - next you will be cutting out tap water PS because of all thoes nastie chemichals in it. infact unless you grow everything you eat yourselves organically, go around in a bio-suit steering well clear of mobile phone masts etc.... you will come into contact with load's of chemichals, so i don't see what the big deal is with supplements.
And you're just the type of person the magazines successfully aim for. Sure they're all guilty of it advertising crap in every type of pubication, but muscle mags are the worst of it all, which was pretty much all my original point was...that and the fact you don't need any supplements to grow bigger quicker. :)

[Workshy]

And you're just the type of person the magazines successfully aim for. Sure they're all guilty of it advertising crap in every type of pubication, but muscle mags are the worst of it all, which was pretty much all my original point was...that and the fact you don't need any supplements to grow bigger quicker. :)

Are you aware of how many top athletes consume supplements? :splapme

[Profit Seeker]

So that's what you're after becoming is it? A top athlete? I doubt it :mover

[Workshy]

So that's what you're after becoming is it? A top athlete? I doubt it :mover

In the context of my life & those around me, maybe. I'm already a champion farter, where will the accolades end. :)

Write a proper reply when you get time inbetween pruning your organic garden :box

[Profit Seeker]

I've made my point. Top athletes take supplements now for competing, not necessarily before they had already grown o plenty, and wouldn't be suprised if most of them were taking illegal drugs as there are many ways to mask them these days. Drug takers have always been way ahead of drug testers, this is why when the odd one is caught and we're thinking "why do they bother, they can't get away with it", well fact is they can get away with with it far more often than not, hence why they do it. But besides all that, no, not all atheltes take supposedly performance enhancing supplements. That's just all you hear about, open your eyyyyyyes. :Helooo

[John]

Correct - you don't need supplements to grow big quicker. But they help.

That's all Presto and I were really saying.

It amazes me how you don't think they really work PS. They're full of the ingredients your body needs post-workout for maxiumum muscle gain assistance.

[John]

And as an example here, look at Linford Christie. Because of the fact he was British and was the fastest 100m runner in the world at one point, everybody liked him and routed for him in every race he ran for years upon years. Later on it's found out that he was using steroids... you wouldn't have thought it though would you! :wink