Monuments to Stupidity

[Jonny2621]

there would have been a run on any bank taking up that money. Whats really stupid is anyone in the general public believing his was a geuine offer. Surely anyone could see that it was a win-win for Brown. I can't believe he keeps getting away with these publicity stunts.......

[sparkyminer]

because there's no credible alternative Jonny.:)

[Onlyforfun]

45-

I'll also have 2/3 glasses of wine most evenings - counts as 1 portion of fruit in my book :)

This 5 portions a day thing drives me nuts, but not as nuts as my wifes take on it. Would you believe she doesn't count wine, cheese, chips, potatoes or pasta as fruit or veg?!?! :ermmm

I also count onion and garlic in pasta sauce as 2 portions...

[Littlegaz]

45-


This 5 portions a day thing drives me nuts, but not as nuts as my wifes take on it. Would you believe she doesn't count wine, cheese, chips, potatoes or pasta as fruit or veg?!?! :ermmm

I also count onion and garlic in pasta sauce as 2 portions...
She needs educating mate. I had onion, olives, mushroom and peppers on my pizza last night. Add the chives in the cheese & chive dip and there's my five for the day. It's so easy.

[Win2Win]

It took me 41 years to get in the habit of a banana for breakfast......just started on peppers, mange tout, mushrooms, etc 3 X a week......I'll have 5 apples on my death bed and see if it gives me an extra year :rolleyes:

[Onlyforfun]

46- English football commentators commentating on games involving Scottish teams. STOP PATRONISING US YOU B:censored:S.

All the way through Lyon vs Rangers last night:

"What a surprising result"
"Nobody expected this"

and so on ad nauseum. You hear teh same when Celtic play in Europe or the national team play.

Well, I've got news for you, we are in the Champions League on merit and beat the German champions 2 weeks ago. The Scottish national team beat France home and away and are top of a group containg the last World Cup finalists while England languish in 2nd place in an "easy" group.

Message to Sky - SORT IT OUT!

47- Anyone seen Bringing Up Baby (Tuesdays on Ch4) where 6 couples are divided into 3 groups and use different startegies to deal with tehir newborn kids. Is there anything less suited to trial by TV?

One group practises teh "Continuum Concept" where baby is in a sling all day and sleeps in the parents bed. They are doing great with baby not crying and getting lots of sleep, but I will be interested to see what happens when they try to move the little buggers into their own rooms.

Then there is the "Dr Spock" method of do what comes naturally. All well and good especially considering those following this approach seem to have their heads screwed on.

But what monstrosity is the "3rd way" of Claire Verity. To cut a short story short. Baby will feed on the hour every 4 hours. In between it will be put out in the garden during the day and in it's own cot in it's own room, swaddled at night. If it cries it is left to cry, no vistors allowed (including grandparents!) and apart from feeding and changing the parents are limited to 10 minutes contact a day. That is f:censored:g evil!

I can't understand why the people doing this are continuing, even though both mothers are finding it very difficult as it goes totally against their instincts. (The fathers love it 'cos they don't have to do anything). Th eworst bit was the parents of 14 day old twins going out for a meal saying "This vindicates the routine that we are back to a normal life after 2 weeks". Cut to the house with 2 screaming children while Verity stands smugly outside refusing to comfort them.

Reality check - if you don't want kids to change your lifestyle - DON'T HAVE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE...

It seems to me there is a common theme between most of these hard case nannies - none of them have had kids, Gina Ford and "Supernanny" to name but 2 others.

[mathare]

I would have thought that if you were going to rant about Scottish/English football commentators then you'd mention Alan Hansen who is always in the BBC studio for England games and talks about them in terms of "we" and "us"

[vegyjones]

46- English football commentators commentating on games involving Scottish teams. STOP PATRONISING US .
But it was a kinda surprising result, wasn't it?

In Peza's predict a score competition, all but one predicted a home win for Lyon

All except me that is, and I only thought you'd get a draw

[Onlyforfun]

It is just 1 example of a long line of Jimmy Hillisms. And yes, I agree, Alan Hansen is a plonker.

[Win2Win]

I'll tell you what though, what a surprising result last night eh? Rangers beating Lyon, no one expected this kind of result.

[Onlyforfun]

:smileybigangry::Blackl1:Blacklist:blac4:killer:grrr

[Onlyforfun]

48- Hairy lefties really annoy me with their black and white view of the world and rampant hate for capitalism, the same goes for environmentalists.

I couldn't put the argument any better than this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/47180;_ylt=Ag0CDgrU5tuQScHGes4eyaa7YWsA

And as for environmentalists, they hate Land Rovers but a Defender is vastly more environmentally sound than a Prius. For a start, something like 75% of Defenders ever built are still going! And, they are a simple lump of steel with a straightforward engine, so are easy to recycle (what isn't taken for spare parts). The mining practises to recover the simple metals required to build one are also relatively benign. Contrast and compare to the Prius so-called eco-friendly Prius. A Prius is only more environmental than even a Hummer if (and it's a big if) it runs for 10 years or more!

[Elbarto]

Dida near the end of the match against Celtic a few mins ago :D:D

[mathare]

Bit of a surprise that Celtic result really. No-one expected that did they? :wink

[Win2Win]

Bit of a surprise that Celtic result really. No-one expected that did they? :wink

:yikes:

[Onlyforfun]

:thumbs Well done Celtic!

[Vic]

:thumbs Well done Celtic!

Praise indeed from the Blue side of town.
Jimmy Johnstone will no doubt be doing a jig on his cloud :)

Great result for all the GB teams, especially the result at Anfield :)

Never gonna happen, but how about Arsenal v Rangers, Chelski v Celtic in the semi's

[bigcumba]

Never gonna happen, but how about Arsenal v Rangers, Chelski v Celtic in the semi's

That would be too easy Vic - it would mean the first ever all Scottish final :wink

[sparkyminer]

That would be too easy Vic - it would mean the first ever all Scottish final :wink

If they'd got that far BigC. I think the form wouldn't count for much, so with the fanatical support both the Scottish teams have, it wouldn't be such a surprise. Got to get to that stage though first.:D

[bigcumba]

We can dream Sparky... If both teams go through to the next stage it'll be a great boost for Scottish football, if either of them get any further it'll be a bonus... it's obviously a possibility, but still quite a way to go yet.

[MattR]

Aberdeen winning now :yikes:



What's going on :laugh

[bigcumba]

Aberdeen have a decent team this season and some pundist reckon they're as good as they were back in the 80's when they and Dundee United broke the dominance of the Old Firm.... that'll remain to be seen s the season progresses but fingers crossed for the win tonight!

[Onlyforfun]

49- Just got back from a wedding in my old stamping ground of St Andrews, home of one of the best beaches I have ever been on. The West Sands is / was a great place to walk, and when you turned round to walk back to town you had the old course and sand dunes on the right of the town, the old town itself then the cliffs beyond.

But now Fairmont have built a stonking great hotel and golf course on top of the cliffs out of town. Like the Americans it is built to serve, it is oversized, brash and lacking class or charm. ;fire

[bigcumba]

it is oversized, brash and lacking class or charm. ;fire

A bit like Parkhead then? :laugh

[Onlyforfun]

:thumbs Spot on!

[Fadetoblack]

Obligatory careful now...

[wb]

Now Now lads,

[vegyjones]

There's only one way to settle this...


FIGHT!!!!

http://images.scotsman.com/2005/02/15/15secb.jpg

[bigcumba]

:laugh can I take my tongue out of my cheek now? :wink

[vegyjones]

If only my ribs had that sort of flexibility :D

[wb]

Speaking of Celtic and Rangers, what ever happened to Larsson7? I met him a few times in Glasgow, but since lost my phone and don't have his number. There used to be some fierce arguments on here when I first joined!!

[vegyjones]

He has recently been banned from Parkhead for an incident involving AC Milan's Dida! :D

[bigcumba]

Haven't seen him for months now Wayne.... I used to have his regular email address on my old laptop, but that's since died as well, so I can't relly help you either I'm afraid.... have you tried looking on other footy forums?

[vegyjones]

I've got an old e-mail address of his if you ant to see if it works wayne!

[tophatter]

I've got an old e-mail address of his if you ant to see if it works wayne!

celticinenglishpremierleagueby2009@inmydreams.co.uk

[vegyjones]

:laugh :laugh

[Win2Win]

I've got an old e-mail address of his if you ant to see if it works wayne!

...maybe Dec would like it as well :rolleyes:

[wb]

LOL. I have an email address somewhere. May drop him a line as I'm hoping to go over before the year is out.

[Onlyforfun]

How apt, Larsson7 was indeed a monument, or at least a small, if insignificant, shrine to stupidity :lickme.

50- Has to be a good 'un for no.50 so I have chosen a favourite topic of "NHS spending". But bear with me dear reader, this is not going where you expect!

Blah blah blah, NHS spending is blah blah blah % of GDP, blah blah blah productivity gains blah blah blah.

Politicians are stupid and take too long to say :censored: all.

I'll give you a very good reason why I KNOW that NHS spending is too high in this country - there are not enough freaks on the street!

Let me explain, your average beggar in the 3rd world, is by far and away more innovtive and compelling than your average London beggar. While in London, we have imported immigrant labour in the form of smelly, aggressive and incoherent but obscene Scottish drunks, we still fall far behind the standards set on the sub-continent, for wont of a better example. Yet again Indian productivity and ingenuity leads the way. Imagine, if you will, a walk to a sacred Hindu shrine, punctuated by requests for alms.

One is accosted not by the stereotypical Glaswegian offering a scabby copy of the Big Issue "help the homeless", "spare some change", "spare a fag" etc. but by a whole host of unfortunate (to our eyes) deformities. This is VERY PROFITABLE for said beggars. "Spare a few rupees, guv?", is easily answered by a "100 for a picture of me prodding your fetid, dripping, leprosy sores with a twig?", "50 for a close up of how a cleft pallette allows the easy enjoyment of 5 B&H at a time?", "200 for you playing golf with a club foot" and so on.

Apart from the not so occasional intrusion of a heroin fuelled, puss riven scally on the Orpington train, asking for money for drugs with no offer of a pictorial quid pro quo, the NHS is obviously too good at solving deformities, thus depriving legitimate freaks of the opportunity to make an honest living rather than claiming disability allowance.

Or take IVF, complete waste of money if you ask me. Now twins fall into 2 camps, identical and "just twins". Most IVF cycles that are succesful result in non-identical twins. Compared to the biological and metaphysical curiosities brought to life by identical twins with their strange resemblances and quasi-telepathic ways, your average non-identical twin is just slightly creepy and dare I say, slightly incestuous in the case of male / female twins (think of those weirdos on X-Factor). They are caught in an ideological no-mans land between "normality" and "special" and thus serve no useful purpose, so why does the NHS fund this?

Comment and indeed, rep, accepted as always!

[Onlyforfun]

51- We are plagued in the borough of Bromley by tea-towel salesmen / women, normally ringing the doorbell at 9:30 pm plus offering to sell me a teatowel on dubious charitable pretences. Sometimes it is in aid of shelters for released prisoners, sometimes mental health, and other such heart rending causes.

But why oh why do they insist on explosions of outraged and profane anger of the ":censored: tight bitch / illegitimate person etc." variety when politely refused. I can hear you, and abusing the 70 year old lady next door does not endear me to your fake cause!

Not to mention a neighbour in a fit of misplaced compassion said "alright then, I'll take 3 teatowels", only to be presented with a demand for £15!!! Needless to say he rather less politely removed said offer from the metaphorical table and slammed the very literal door in said youth's face. :ermmm

[bigcumba]

smelly, aggressive and incoherent but obscene Scottish drunks, !

:yikes: it's over a year since I was in London!

I tend to agree regarding the IVF situation... having children is not a given right, if you / your partner has a medical problem preventing pregnancy from taking place, then I'm afraid that's your lot in life. It ain't gonna kill you, while there are far more deserving cases for 'proper' life saving medical treatment being left on the waiting lists due to funding shortages and in all likelihood a large % of those will die because of that.... to be honest I think anyone who has undergone IVF on the NHS should be made realise that the thousands of pounds spent on what is usually futile anyway (I think around 80% of treatments fail to produce a viable pregnancy) could have saved lives of cancer or leukaemia sufferers. I'm afraid IVF should be regarded as a luxury... you want it, you pay for it privately, if you can't afford it, give up the fags/booze/car/SkyTV/Benidorm... that should let you pay for it in about a year.... and if it's that important, giving up a few minor enjoyments won't feel like a sacrifice.

[mathare]

I'm afraid IVF should be regarded as a luxury... you want it, you pay for it privately, if you can't afford it, give up the fags/booze/car/SkyTV/Benidorm...I'd rather anyone who drinks, smokes and holidays in Benidorm didn't have IVF actually. Or children at all come to mention it :laugh

[Onlyforfun]

52- The "Betfair 3" case has the hallmark of a case brought by authority with reckless disregard for the chances of securing a conviction.

17 races are the focus of the case against Fallon. In those 17 races, he improved his strike rate from 19% to 27% and his co-defendant lost £360,000 laying his rides.

Now whether or not they are guilty, would any jury ever convict on this so-called evidence???:headbange

[Mavrick]

I have to strongly disagree about the free IVF on the NHS. With all the single parent families on council estates and the droves of down and out teenagers getting pregnant, mature couples who can actually support a family and most importantly are ready to have a family should be given all the help they can get.
It surely must be cost effective in the long run to stomach the expense of IVF to have some well brought up kids in this country who's parents will have greater ambitions for their children other then want them to grow up to be footballers!!

As for Fallon. I don't know exactly what his rides were, but if you wanted to fix races then you would do it at the shorter end of the market and these horses statistically would win more often anyway. So having an increased strike rate for them races in question isn't very surprising if you ask me.

He's as bent as a nine bob note.

[presto]

the other week 'moneyweek' did an artivle on IVF, and it costs a fortune for an unreliable procedure.

the figures are off the top of my head from what i can remember - but costs something like £23K for a 17% success rate :yikes:

thats an awfull lot of money for a non-emergency / non life threatening, luxery product.

that £23K - i am sure everyone would agree would be much better spent on an extra nurses anual wage for example. Especially as it may take 5 or more procedures.

[Win2Win]

The NHS was not set up for IVF, they are not ill.

[presto]

moneyweek - IVF stats:

- 1 in 7 couples have difficulty conceving.
the adverage success rate is:
28.1% - women under 35
21.9% - women aged 35-37
17.5% - women aged 38-39
10.4% women aged 40-42
national success rate 17%
- couples need an adverage of 3 IVF attempts to get preggers.

costs:

consultation:
initial consultation - £170
seminal analysis - £105
ultrasound - £142
follow up consultation - £125

treatment:
IVF - £2995
assisted hatching £525
blastoyst transfer - £540
ICSI - £1195
egg collection / freezing - ££3004
HFEA fea - £104

total - £8950
(not including blood tests / medication / overnight stay - overnight stay = £235 per night)

so if an adverage of 3 treatments are needed then the adverage cost is -£26715

[Mavrick]

ok, so at worse you'll need 6 treatments which will cost £135,000. I would have thought that the children born out of IVF treatment would be far more likely to end up in a better paying job then the children born from a 15 year old with little or no family support.

Lets say the IVF kid earns £30,000 a year for 30 years. Let's ignore inflation. So that's £900,000 he/she will earn in their life time. Take 30% of for tax, and that child has paid back £270,00 to the country. That's £270,000 that would never have been paid in taxes if it wasn't for the IVF treatment. As for the single parent child, he/she could end up costing the country hundreds of thousands in Social Security or prison accomodation.
The country will be more properous in the long term

You have to pay for prescriptions on the NHS, even if you are seriously ill and have paid thousands in NI over the years! So if I was a women who needed IVF treatment I would think I was just getting what I had paid for. The NHS has wasted £billions on poor management, it can waste a little more on a worthwhile cause:)

[bigcumba]

The NHS was not set up for IVF, they are not ill.

Exactly... it's there to treat the sick and help prevent the healthy from becoming ill.

Mavrick - Every day in our hospital I walk past the Oncology (cancer) unit and see the patients who are suffering from the various types of cancer and leukaemia. I know that some of them are being denied the treatment they require due to funding shortages, yet in the same place there are otherwise healthy women receiving IVF treatment - as Presto pointed out the cost is enormous. You go tell the cancer patients, the kids with leukaemia, and the Alzheimer sufferers and their carers to their faces that they are less of a priority than someone wanting IVF treatment. To me that's just a no-brainer... we should be spending the money on saving the lives that are already here - not creating more.

[Win2Win]

I would have thought that the children born out of IVF treatment would be far more likely to end up in a better paying job then the children born from a 15 year old with little or no family support.

You think wrong, they will turn out in comparison to non-IVF kids.

[bigcumba]

Lets say the IVF kid earns £30,000 a year for 30 years. Let's ignore inflation. So that's £900,000 he/she will earn in their life time. Take 30% of for tax, and that child has paid back £270,00 to the country.

That's looking at it like some sort of investment that gives you no return for around 20 years and then it's still not guaranteed!

[Mavrick]

I understand that bc, and it must be tough, but I would hate to see a two tier system like in America. The NHS is probably the most efficient health care system in the world despite all its wastage, yet off the top of my head I think we only give around 8% of our GDP towards it, whilst in the states it's almost double that.
Instead of looking to cut services, IVF/cancer treatments, I think we should be raising National insurance contributions quite a bit, but not just to generate a second tax which is what seems to have happened now where not all the money from NI actually gets spent on the NHS which is criminal if you ask me, but to have a world class health system we can be proud of.

We are one of the worst countries in europe for cancer survival rates, and that's because it's not detected earlier enough, and I think that's mainly because people don't like to go to the GP as they think they are wasting the doctors time. In the Czech Republic where I live, people go to the doctors for annual check ups where everything you can think of is checked and they only spend a fraction of the GDP we do yet they only have slightly worse cancer survival rates, and I think this is solely because doctors over here are far more friendly and they don't make you feel like you are wasting their time, so you don't feel bad about going there so they catch the cancer earlier.

What was I on about again?

[Mavrick]

I'm not going to win this debate am I? :laugh

If only this was a more girly forum and not a horse racing forum:D

[bigcumba]

If only this was a more girly forum and not a horse racing forum:D

:laugh you want www.barbie2barbie.com (http://www.barbie2barbie.com)

(that'll probably turn out to be some sort of dolly porn site!)

[Mavrick]

:laugh

[Onlyforfun]

Hi Mavrick

I understand what you are saying although I think your tax assertion is shaky, but it's no crime to believe that IVF should be covered by the NHS.

...BUT...

Why not encourage these same parents to be to adopt or foster, plenty existing kids who could do with a home?

[Mavrick]

Tax has never been one of my strong points OFF.

I think that's a great idea to encourage couples to adopt, especially for women who are statistically less likely to have success with IVF due to their age. I also think that adoption laws in the UK could be eased somewhat, but for some people, for whatever reason, having a go at IVF first is preferential and I don't think it should be discouraged.

[Win2Win]

Their is more advanced science than IVF which selects only the healthy sperm (as plenty is produced for oral fun only!!), as most IVF fail due to problems with the sperm. At the moment they go on looks :ooo , but the NHS hasn't got round to using the new method yet. It ensures a higher success rate, which lowers the cost, but they should still be paying for it themselves whatever.

[piggy]

presto i don't know where moneyweek got there figures from but when we went through ivf we only got it partially funded as we allready had a child and we only got that because i became spermically challenged [i think the medical term is "firing blanks"] through ammonia poisoning. anyway our GP agreed to pay for the drugs out of there own budget [£800] and we had to pay the clinic costs [£1,945] per cycle which is a hell of a lot less than moneyweek reckon, unfortunattly it didn't work for us but i do believe we should help childless couples concieve. as for adoption we looked into that but because i like a smoke , a drink and am overweight we had no chance of adopting.

[Win2Win]

http://www.thebridgecentre.co.uk/treatment1.htm

Adds up to quite a bit for low income folk.

[Onlyforfun]

but because i like a smoke , a drink and am overweight .

None of the above are particularly conducive to natural conception either.

[Onlyforfun]

53- I remember when Gavin Hamilton, the cricket player had a half decent World Cup for Scotland and was selected by England to play in the next test against S Africa whereupon he scored 2 ducks and bowled 0-63 off 90 balls. Some English friends speculated that he was a) rubbish and b) must be gutted.

Oh how naive they were and how much pleasure I took in letting them in on "the secret", that he was a blatant ringer, and those were the stats any self-respecting Scotsman would end up with when playing for England (not sure what Athertons excuse for a pair in the same match was).

Now I hear you muttering "get to the point OFF" so I will. What other Scotsman do we know who seems intent on thowing a "match" in England, our dear cantankerous old toad, G. Brown.

I see that they are thinking about rewarding marriage in the tax system, yet another Tory idea. If the main attack on DC was to be that he was "policy lite" it makes no sense to steal all his well publicised policies, this masterstroke giving exactly the opposite impression.

And it's one thing to invite Maggie T for tea, but when T Blair starts sticking the knife in... Brown forgot that Blair is in the same enviable position as a best man who is already married, he can say what he likes in teh speech without fear of reprisals. It might have been OK if Brown had overthrown him and it could be passed off as sour grapes, but...

So the only possible conclusion can be that he is trying to throw the election in England to allow an SNP led breakaway from the Union.

Tell me I'm wrong TH!

[Onlyforfun]

54- Why oh why before Gulf War II did the sandal wearing bearded ones want a UN resolution. Yet again this implausible institution has covered itself in ridicule as the Commission on Sustainable Development is currently headed by Afica (the continents take it in turns). Bad / futile enough on emight say, but wait, there is more. Guess what country is in charge...

...no go on, guess...

...got it?....

Zimbabwe!?!?

You couldn't make it up. And all the time our Government increase the "foreign development" portion of the budget to some £9 billion per year to pay for this crap.

[presto]

55- legalise all drugs :yikes:

should a copper really be saying this? ok i have nothing against soft drugs like weed etc... but to legalise heroin, crystal meth etc... seems madness.

there will always be drugs and drug use, and i beleive prohabition just lines the pockets of criminals. and it goes completely unregulated.

weed is a good example - resin aka soapbar on the market is bulked up with other substances, and i mean anything can be found in it. bud has often been known to contain ground up glass (gives it a frosty look associated with good weed).
around my area the people who grow the stuff in basically houses converted to weed factories are primaraly illegal chinese immigrants smuggled into the country by organised 'snake head' gangs.

if the goverment were to regulate the industry, like in the netherlands then there would be no crime organisations running the market, the product could be 'safe' well at least pure, huge taxes could be put on the product like alcohol / tobbaco. this tax money could then be spent on helping addiction etc....

to me it's a no-brainer.

as for the 'hard drugs' i do not think they should be legalised, heroin / crystal meth etc... are highly addictive and not safe. however (i think there is an earlier post about this) should be perscribable. - i commented earlier that this is a huge cost saving measure, through reduced crime etc....

[Merlin]

Their is more advanced science than IVF which selects only the healthy sperm (as plenty is produced for oral fun only!!), as most IVF fail due to problems with the sperm. At the moment they go on looks :ooo , but the NHS hasn't got round to using the new method yet. It ensures a higher success rate, which lowers the cost, but they should still be paying for it themselves whatever.


Slippery slope if you ask me....whats the childs name going to be eugene or eugena:yikes:

[Onlyforfun]

Presto- good post, not sure what the answer is, but the status quo is not working. I see you mentioned Moneyweek aswell, have a look at the Daily Reckoning website (free). It's run by the same people.

As for IVF, a slippery slope indeed, for the NHS to provide services that provide no health benefit to the recipients and indeed, create further demand on health services and expose the patient to significant risk is immoral.

[Onlyforfun]

56- Since when was our education system reduced to showing blatantly one-sided political "documentaries" instead of teaching kids facts then asking them to interpret them.

I talk of course, of An Inconvenient Truth by Al Bore which the high court has criticised for making unfounded and / or incorrect and / or unprovable statements about the scientific concensus and evidence on global warming.

Hats off to the head teacher who took this to court.

[Win2Win]

It's about time we taught kids financial management, instead of giving them a credit card at 16 and letting them 'learn'....while the rest of us pay for there mistakes.

Al Gore got the basics right, just over egged it in good 'ole Hollywood style :icon_tong

Ice melts when temperatures warm up.....thank you :censored: Al Einstein!!! :splapme

[wb]

OFF, have you ever read a book called 'Is it just me, or is everthing sh*t?'

I'd say you'd like it!

[mathare]

OFF, have you ever read a book called 'Is it just me, or is everthing sh*t?'As we're ranting here can I just say that I was in WH Smith at the weekend and as well as that title they had "Is it just me, or is everything great?", "It is just you, everythin's not sh*t" and two or three other parodies of the book. Almost every book in one section of the shop seemed to have umpteen parody or rip-off versions. I lost count of the number of similar titles to "Does anything eat wasps?", "Eats, shoots and leaves" and "Schotts original miscellany"

Are there no original ideas any more or is everyone just trying to cash in on someone else's?

[wb]

As we're ranting here can I just say that I was in WH Smith at the weekend and as well as that title they had "Is it just me, or is everything great?", "It is just you, everythin's not sh*t" and two or three other parodies of the book. Almost every book in one section of the shop seemed to have umpteen parody or rip-off versions. I lost count of the number of similar titles to "Does anything eat wasps?", "Eats, shoots and leaves" and "Schotts original miscellany"

Are there no original ideas any more or is everyone just trying to cash in on someone else's?

I took a book publishing module as part of my Librarian degree at university, and was amazed to learn how the big book publishers have the market totally tied up. We seem to be fed the same stuff over and over. There's very little competition, and most of the small publishers have been squeezed out. It's all gone very commercialised, but people are lapping up whatever is presented to them :ermmm

[Jonny2621]

I took a book publishing module as part of my Librarian degree at university, and was amazed to learn how the big book publishers have the market totally tied up. We seem to be fed the same stuff over and over. There's very little competition, and most of the small publishers have been squeezed out. It's all gone very commercialised, but people are lapping up whatever is presented to them :ermmm

Ive been in publishing for many years Wayne. Yes, the big publishers do dominate the market but its no different to cars, chocolate, supermarkets or any other industry you may mention. The biggest and fittest get bigger and fitter or get taken over. There has been a lot of consolidation in the publishing industry as the giants like Harper Collins, Penguin and Hachette get ever bigger but there are hundreds of small publishers publishing good books and new publishers springing up all the time to fill niches in the market.

Its worth remembering that Bloomsbury, publishers of Harry Potter were by no means a publishing giant before the little wizard in specs came along. Proof that size isnt everything if you publish what people want.

[wb]

True enough. As much as I dislike fantasy, at least Harry Potter was an original idea. The type of book that bugs me the most is the book based on a TV show. Or worse still, autobiographies by 20 year old 'celebrities' !

[Onlyforfun]

OFF, have you ever read a book called 'Is it just me, or is everthing sh*t?'

I'd say you'd like it!

You know me Wayne, miserable to the core. :laugh

I just enjoy the absurd, and am still disappointed nobody pulled me up on the poking a leper with a twig!:yikes:

[Jonny2621]

The type of book that bugs me the most is the book based on a TV show. Or worse still, autobiographies by 20 year old 'celebrities' !

Wayne Rooney, Christiano Ronaldo et all writing their memoirs when they are 22 or 23 bugs me too. What the hell do they fill the book with, they havent done anything yet ???

[mathare]

Wayne Rooney, Christiano Ronaldo et all writing their memoirs when they are 22 or 23 bugs me too. What the hell do they fill the book with, they havent done anything yet ???Joey Barton had it right on footballers' autobiographies:

I can't get my head round that. England did nothing in that World Cup, so why were they bringing books out? 'We got beaten in the quarter-finals. I played like s***. Here's my book.' Who wants to read that? I don't. If I'm buying a book I'll buy a book about someone who's won something. Not a book someone's written for the sake of it because their agent's telling them they can cash in on the English public on the back of the World Cup. I know football is a well-oiled PR machine these days, but that's just bull.

[Fadetoblack]

Credit agencies that pass on information to loan companies. That should be against the law.

[tophatter]

53- Tell me I'm wrong TH!

You are wrong OFF :laugh

[Win2Win]

Joey should take up being a critic for The Sun, as he's crap at footy :)

[Onlyforfun]

OFF, have you ever read a book called 'Is it just me, or is everthing sh*t?'

And everything is definately not sh*t, with Scottish football in such rude health. Rangers and Celtic beating 3 of the top teams in the CL, Aberdeen qualifying for the group stages of the UEFA cup, Hibs laying down a challenge in teh league, and who can forget that the national team are De Facto World Champions.

:goal:Kilt::goal:Kilt:

And I've been offered a free days fishing on one of the top beats in the Test next year!

And ...

[mathare]

and who can forget that the national team are De Facto World Champions.But Turkey are current Unofficial Football World Championship title holders (competition started in 1967), and also holders of Nasazzi's Baton, the equivalent championship traced from the first world cup won by Uruguay.

Admittedly Scotland top the rankings for UFWC matches as champions, days as champion and title matches won but they lost their title in March of this year.

[Win2Win]

They were charging me £15.99 for a 4.8kg turkey in Morrisons last week....after I argued they had them priced up wrong (should be £13.99), she let me have it 1/2 price......

[Onlyforfun]

57- The false debate about whether Rugby is better than Football framed in terms of "graciousness in defeat", "attitude of supporters", "violence" etc.

Sorry, but there can only be 1 winner - football. Let's face it, the potential for artistry is unlimited in football whereas rugby is an unnatural game where the ball cannot be passed forwards. During the rugby world cup I can't remember being wowed by any exhilirating rugby except in the hugely 1-sided matches. The drama of Englands progression was all in the closeness of the scores, certainly not in the way they played.

In addition, Rugby is the sport least likely to produce surprise victories. In football Brazil or Real Madrid can have a bad day and draw with or even lose to a minnow that for 1 night only play above themselves due to the high currency of a goal. Compare with rugby where the scoring zone is 50 yards wide (even then England usually fail to cross it).

And scrums? Who could come up with a worse way of getting teh ball back in play, where the most basic rules are routinely flouted.

But to the killer fact, what rugby moment could ever surpass the creative genius of Brazils goal in the 1970 World Cup final, certainly no rugby WC final has produced such a display.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HrjevD2vhk&search=carlos%20alberto

As for the rubbish about better behaved fans, give me a break, just because they don't fight each other (not a lot of that at football matches these days either) doesn't mean they are well-behaved. I've seen more fights in Cardiff or Edinburgh after a 6 nations match than after any Old Firm derby of recent years.

Anyway, I like the animosity of football, it gives the sport a proper edge, after all, if you don't hate the other side, what is the point of beating them?

[Onlyforfun]

58- What ever happened to "Citizens Juries". What were they, what were they for, who was on them, what would they debate? Nobody seems to know, but the 5 so far have cost an aggregate £520,000 +!!! :yikes:

[Win2Win]

We don't get paid for having a mass debate on here........

[Onlyforfun]

I gave up reading the papers for a while except financials and sport, but the radio got me this morning:

60 - Gordon Brown says thatif the drinks industry don't take steps to cut under age binge drinking he will. Good luck Gordo!

61- Further to HMRC's loss of everyones personal details (including the names and ages and addresses of all children), I received 2 letters from them yesterday. Letter number 1 informed me that I don't need to fill out a tax return this year, letter 2 telling me that I do! There was also an unpaid A4 envelope that is almost certainly the paper tax return, buggered if I'm paying £1.24 for that!

[Win2Win]

60.a - Same number of kids drink underage today as in my days back in the early 80's (research by myself with many kids I know). Just that Labour have the figures, Tories couldn't be bothered keeping any.

61.a - Tight :butthead: :D

[Onlyforfun]

62 - How amusing it was to watch Brown squirm yesterday over the funding row. Usually he disappears in a crisis. He must be cursing Blairs decision to have these press conferences.

I'm amazed how he is even making Major's Government look competent in comparison. :laugh

PMQ's should be fun today.


Same number of kids drink underage today as in my days back in the early 80's (research by myself with many kids I know). Just that Labour have the figures, Tories couldn't be bothered keeping any.


What's that got to do with anything. Whats the point of keeping score on underage drinking as by your own admission, it has always gone on, and always will. I await with eagerness the Great Puritan's detailed plans to reverse tens of thousands of years of human nature. After all, he failed miserably with gold, believing, like many who should know better (Niall Ferguson springs to mind), that it was merely a "barbarous relic". What vanity allows these people to believe they can overturn the entire previous human experience?

[Win2Win]

:doh

[Onlyforfun]

63 - Got the grovelling letter from HMRC apologising for losing our details today...

...In an envelope heavily marked HMRC, containing name, address, child benefit number and NI number. Should just have put a label on it saying "all you need to steal an ID inside". :splapme

[samantha1303]

Looking at the last couple of days -
Football is far superior to rugby, always has been always will be.
Under age drinking, well it has always happened and always will, and the upper classes are the main culprits, just ask Harry

[Win2Win]

...In an envelope heavily marked HMRC, containing name, address, child benefit number and NI number. Should just have put a label on it saying "all you need to steal an ID inside". :splapme

I've been getting them, letters from the MOD marked MOD, and from the benefits office, again clearly marked, since the 80's containing the same info.....so must have been the Tories that started that culture then. I can copy the envelopes if you wish for proof, still have them. :)

[Onlyforfun]

64- You've got to love this one. In the old days when you reached 100 year s old the Queen sent you a telegram to say congratulations. Not a big deal, something like 100,000 in her reign.

But now?

First, someone has to write to Buck Palace requesting a card. Then the Palace have to fill out forms and send them to the Dept of Work and Pensions who then send someone round to check the persons birth certificate and ask them if they want to receive a card. This is so that they don't waste money sending a card (say £1.50 inc. p&p)!

What a farce and they have the cheek to bang on about "efficiency".

:waver Brown :waver

[Win2Win]

Thank God we have the Tories who gave us wonders like the Poll Tax :rolleyes:

[Jonny2621]

Thank God we have the Tories who gave us wonders like the Poll Tax :rolleyes:

I liked that, saved me a fortune at the time as I lived alone in a high rated area :thumbs

The family next door with 3 adults, two of them earning a wage and 4 teenagers, all of whom left 12 bags of rubbish out compared to my one every week, had 5 cars, as well as 4 kids at local schools using local buses and amenities, had to pay a few quid more

Seemed fair enough to me :doh

[Onlyforfun]

Has there ever been perfect Government, and after 10 years+ it is about time the current lot stopped blaming anything that is going wrong on the previos lot.

[Win2Win]

...and it's about time everyone stopped blaming the goverment for everything as well and took some responsibility themselves.

[Jonny2621]

...and it's about time everyone stopped blaming the goverment for everything as well and took some responsibility themselves.

I didn't invade Iraq, make a pigs ear of it by cow towing to the Americans and bring Islamic terrorism to the streets of Britain
I didn't spend many billions that the country couldn't afford, thus racking up a massive national debt that we can't sustain going forward
I didn't keep increasing personal taxes, most by stealth, depending solely on rising house prices to keep money in people's pockets until we get to the brink of recession
I didn't allow hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to enter the country and some of them to even get cleared for security jobs :yikes:
I didn't see years ago that prisons were getting full but didn't bother to build any more
I didn't allow hundreds of foreign criminals back onto the streets instead of deporting them
I didn't 'lose' the private details of millions of citizens by just bunging them in the post
I didn't shut hundreds of local police stations and then look bemused when communities are ravaged by youth crime and anti-social behaviour

I don't think I am to blame for these things. What responsibility are we supposed to take ? If it isn't the government who we blame for the things they have done is there a mischevious group of GOBLINS that I don't know about ??? :splapme

[Win2Win]

House being flooded is NOT the governments fault. If you buy a home it is up to the buyer to check for water problems.
The people also had 24hrs notice & ignored, yet some parts of the media are blaming the government for not enough notice!!!
Uninsured during floods, fire, etc, also the governments fault by some parts of the media, so they gave in and have been paying the uninsured to help them, sod all to those who paid the policy.
Repossessions are not the governments fault, that is between the lender & the buyer.
Loss of data, happened during the Tory years as it is the same civil servants who run the places, who haven't changed the way they do things since the dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
Hospital problems......That is the hospital managers fault, not the governments, the majority of hospitals are in profit.
Illegal immigrants working in security. When was the last terrorist attack in this country by an illegal immigrant? Erm :doh How many British/European citizens have been involved in terrorist acts? 1000's
The illegal immigrant was at least working and paying his taxes, unless the smackhead bums who live here.
...shall I go on....:)

[Jonny2621]

I don't think you addressed the specific points I made; the cockups I listed are all the work of the Government, this Government, like most of them, regardless of their political leaning, it is filled with useless politicians who have never worked in the real world just in think-tanks (a misnomer if ever there was one), unions or the Labour Party

The institutions that have failed, the Child Support Agency, the Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise and many more are set up and managed by the government. If they don't work properly it is the government that fails to run them properly not Joe Public, sorry

Dont you just love politics ? :D

[Win2Win]

Who said I was addressing your points? :doh
I made a comment, you gave your suggestions on your side, I never said if I agreed or not, I made my own suggestions about the government being blamed for things they are not responsible for.

Kid gets stabbed. Dies. Schools fault....which is run by local authority...which makes it the governments fault.....nothing to do with the parents then? :doh

It is getting like America, every single subject turns into politics.

Remeber when I was in Nevada just after the shootings in that Uni, and at the memorial serive some 18 year old giving a talk about how wonderful the dead people where....then turned it into a political speech :splapme For God's sake love....get out...get p1ssed....take drugs...have sex....HAVE A LIFE!!!

Watch Fox News & enjoy :D

[Win2Win]

The institutions that have failed, the Child Support Agency, the Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise and many more are set up and managed by the government. If they don't work properly it is the government that fails to run them properly not Joe Public, sorry

Oh....and it's the civil cervants, etc that RUN those....not the government.....see what I mean? :headbange

[presto]

i just found out today that a mate of mine is getting deported on 27th december.

he is a kosovan albanian - who came here when the war broke out and his parents were arrested (and village burnt down) not to mention a lot of killings.

he came here as a kid and went into foster care, and basically grew up here. got a job, paid for uni education, rents a huse etc....

because he has been here so long he is allowed citizenship, he applyed and got it year's ago. up untill then he had a long term visa or something and had a NI card.

though for some reason a few month's back - the home office people came to his place of work and said that he wasn't allowed to work. and had to claim benefits.

apparently there was a 'glitch' which nobody knows what in his citizenship / passport application and he is being deported.

[Jonny2621]

Oh....and it's the civil cervants, etc that RUN those....not the government.....see what I mean? :headbange


No, if my business fails, its my fault as I set the objectives and operational guidelines and employ the staff. I cant see every bit of paper but if we go tits up its my fault, period

Im going now :D

[Jonny2621]

i just found out today that a mate of mine is getting deported on 27th december.

he is a kosovan albanian - who came here when the war broke out and his parents were arrested (and village burnt down) not to mention a lot of killings.

he came here as a kid and went into foster care, and basically grew up here. got a job, paid for uni education, rents a huse etc....

because he has been here so long he is allowed citizenship, he applyed and got it year's ago. up untill then he had a long term visa or something and had a NI card.

though for some reason a few month's back - the home office people came to his place of work and said that he wasn't allowed to work. and had to claim benefits.

apparently there was a 'glitch' which nobody knows what in his citizenship / passport application and he is being deported.

Sounds just like a govt department, let thousands of feckless illegal immigrants in, including a few terrorists for good measure, but deport a hard working individual who was a genuine refugee but got off his backside to make something of himself

Welcome to Britain 2007

Oh....I was going wasn't I ? :D

[tophatter]

Telegrams are so yesterday!

I want her/his majesty to send me one of those funny email cards when I reach 100. :)

[Win2Win]

...and yet if we don't deport illegal immigrants....the government gets the blame for them being here....they deport them.....and they get the blame :doh Lose - Lose situation.

How come italy can put them on a coach & chuck them out the country the same day? :doh

Mind you, at least we deport them in the plane loads these days, under the Tories they hardly threw anyone back out.

[Win2Win]

No, if my business fails, its my fault as I set the objectives and operational guidelines and employ the staff. I cant see every bit of paper but if we go tits up its my fault, period

Im going now :D

But things like the DHS, etc, are RUN by management, not the GOVERNMENT, and if they fail it is the MANAGERS fault.

[Onlyforfun]

But things like the DHS, etc, are RUN by management, not the GOVERNMENT, and if they fail it is the MANAGERS fault.

:Blacklist The person at the top of an organisation ultimately has responsibility for what happens within it.

The specific problem with this Government (and I in no way am saying that previous govts have not had faults) is that it is big into micro-management of schools, hospitals, local authorities, charities, business, not to mention how much we drink, smoke, drive and eat etc etc etc.

If they introduce rule after target after key-stage after policy without any thought to implementation or even making them remotely understandable by anyone not versed in New Speak, then they have to take responsibility for the cock-ups.

Personally, I am all for more personal freedom and responsibility. In particular, if I want to pay for private healthcare and education for my children it should be tax deductable.

Reliance on a "free" NHS encourages unhealthy behaviour and prevents meaningful improvement in services.

If I want my kids to be taught English, maths and sciences at school I should be free to shop around for a school that teaches them rather than put up with the 1 size fits all media studies agenda.

Ludicrously, there is to be an official curriculum for nursery schools for under 5's starting Sept 08. So I want to send my kids to a Montessori pre-school that I pay for and now HMG is telling me that they will damn well learn what the Govt wants them to learn. So I will let the Govt pay for it from January.

If you want to see a truly scary website that is typical of the bull this lot are getting up to look no further than:

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/

I challenge you to find any practical information on how "multi-agency targetted signposting" will help children "enjoy and achieve, make a positive contribution and achieve economic well-being"

If they want me to calculate my own taxes then I should get a tax break, say £100 rather than a £200 fine for not filling out a self-assessment form for 2003 when they never sent me anything to tell me they wanted me to!

;fire:mad::headbange

[Win2Win]

The person at the top of an organisation ultimately has responsibility for what happens within it.

So as the government allow me to run a business in there country, under there laws, in there tax system, Mr Brown is responsible if I go bust or lose data? NOPE!! I am. Same as the MANGERS of the hospitals are responsible for any problems within that specific hospital, not Mr Fliipin Brown. :splapme

You're all turning into Yanks :yikes:

[vegyjones]

So as the government allow me to run a business in there country, under there laws, in there tax system, Mr Brown is responsible if I go bust or lose data?

That's a bit extreme. The government aren't responsible for decisions you make about your company, and neither do they influence your proceedures unlike they do with the organisations mentioned so far in this thread.

There has always been acountability in business, long before it became rife in society, and ultimately, the present government seems to want to annul all sense of accountability within it's membership.

[Win2Win]

But they do influence the way my company is run, I can't do anything without it having some kind of government laws involved.

[Onlyforfun]

So as the government allow me to run a business in there country, under there laws, in there tax system, Mr Brown is responsible if I go bust or lose data? NOPE!! I am. Same as the MANGERS of the hospitals are responsible for any problems within that specific hospital, not Mr Fliipin Brown. :splapme

You're all turning into Yanks :yikes:

You are f'ing mental if you read that into what I said! :rolleyes: BUT, Brown is responsible for what goes on in individual hospitals if he sets up a funding and target system that is blatantly self-contradictory!

Anyway, I thought "MANGERS" a nice seasonal touch...

[Onlyforfun]

65- http://www.win2win.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=453788#post453788

Hmmmm, let's see, no cover-up, no should have known, no deputy leader accepting money, the electoral commission being informed as soon as poosible and let me think...... no £multi-million planning applications granted afterwards!

What is bigger?

Sleaze

Sleaze

I think it is important to test your perspective!

[Win2Win]

Anyway, I thought "MANGERS" a nice seasonal touch...

If you were4 on these new pills I'm on youd be lucky to tpye anyhting correctly. (this is the unedited 1st try) :geek

[Win2Win]

Sleaze

Sleaze


I just looked in the dictionary and them both mean the same :doh

[Onlyforfun]

66- Northern Rock guarantees and loans are now up to £57 billion or, to put it another way, more than half the health budget for 2007 (£104 billion).

Add to that the BoE auctions of around £50 billion so far where they take dodgy CDO's as collateral and exchange it for shiny new pounds fresh from the printing press and as my favourite columnist says "pretty soon you are talking real money!"

It reminds me of a certain novice gambler of my aquaintance who got in trouble with the Martingdale system and kept throwing good money after bad!

Or maybe it reminds me more of Mr Micawber who always believed that "something will turn up" to save him from finacial embarassment.

[Onlyforfun]

Well, the inevitable finally happened and Northen Rock was "nationalised". The right decision too late?, The wrong decision too late?

Who knows, but at least Beardy Branson didn't get his hands on it after his cosy trip with Brown.

Long term this might be a good deal for the taxpayer, OK the Bank of England has to gurantee the deposits and lend money to cover the mortgages, but as it can effectively create money out of thin air at almost zero cost, as long as the business is run at arms length, the government makes a spread between the cost of the money to the BoE or zero % and the rate lent to NR at around 5.75-6% or around £1.7 billion per year. The danger is if this money is left in the sytem as it unwinds it will fuel inflation.

With hindsight the current squeals about govt mismanagement don't really add up. If they had nationalised on day 1 (probably the right option) they would have been accused of resurrecting clause 4, if they had sold to Lloyds, it would have been big business favouritism and EU troubles and merely guaranteeing deposits and lending short term funds would have implied the same to all banks. I'm not convinced the other lot would have done any better.

What was/is at fault is the regulatory regime that allowed the problem in the first place, the Bank of England can set higher capital adequacy requirements if it deems a banks business to be risky (in effect limiting the number of loans it can make without similar deposits). Separation of oversight between teh Treasury, BoE and the FSA led predictably to nobody doing anything as each body could legitamately claim that it was "somebody elses problem".

If banks are considered too big to fail, at public expense, then they should be subject to tighter regulation and higher capital adequacy should be required.

It also comes down to rampant money and credit creation by govt over the last 10-15 years, not just in the UK. As money gets cheaper and more abundant, more risks are taken and where the govt leads the private sector will follow as inflation and money supply rises they must search in riskier places for higher yield to compensate for the real decline in the value of their assets.

The real damage to the govt is going to be when they start laying people off from NR. It has to be done, but it doesn't look good for Labour to do it.

As an aside, the press conference with Darling Brown yeatrday spoke volumes. Every time Darling was asked a question he asked Brown if he could answer. I think we can all guess who wears the trousers in that relationship!

[sparkyminer]

I was listening to some idiot on the radio today saying they've only saved it 'cos it was in a Labour stronghold. I think he was one of the London mayoral candidates.:splapme::swear
On a purely obtuse viewpoint, I now sponsor Newcastle United.:doh

[Onlyforfun]

For once Anatole Kaletsky in The Times had a point. What should happen is that they accept no new business (to avoid unfair competition), all savings get transferred to National Savings and all mortgages are funded by issuing Govt bonds (gilts) as the Northern Rock paper expires. As customers come to the end of their deals they won't be able to get a new one from this source so will in all likelihood pay back the balance by taking a mortgage from another provider.

[tophatter]

I dont know enough about banking to comment on the whys or wherefors but i know enough about politics to know the Tories will ssay the fact Labour did not nationalise it on day one is a sign of Gordon Brown been a "ditherer"

This is all very dangerous politics form the Tories. Yes it might seem clever at the moment to make hay from the decision (the only correct decision) to not call a general election but you can do things to overkill. They seem to just say the word dither everytime a massive decision needs to be taken if it is not made instantly.

There will come a time when David Cameron will have to make a big decision and he will make it trigger happy quickly to try and empathise the fact that he is decisive and not a ditherer like Gordon Brown. When he gets that decision wrong he will make big mistakes.

My advice to Brown is for him to carry on "dithering" and let cameron posture about been decisive. I suspect people might feel safer with someone who weighs up the options than someone who they may feel will just make decisions on the hoof. If I were Mr.Brown, at the time of the next election, I would say do you want the decisions that matter to be made by someone who takes his time but who is experienced or do you want to trust this young inexperienced man who rushes into things?

Dave might end up saying things and doing things in the heat of a general election battle to show he is not a ditherer which may just lead the electorate to dither about whether it is wise to give him the chance to be this decisive leader when he actually has a decision to make that will affect their future.

[Onlyforfun]

Every day I resolve not to read the newspapers or watch the news, and quite often I fail and come accross yet more madness that makes me madder than Mad Jack McMads maddest uncle.

67- Oooh look at that environmentally aware supermarket Marks & Spencer. Making people pay 5p for a plastic bag is just sooooo right on, I mean they choke turtles and cause carbon emissions, right?

Whoa!!! Hold on just one f:censored:g second before we give them a green award or 5. I don't know what supermarket you all shop in, but the ones I use, including M&S package every damn thing these days in plastic trays, with plastic lids, and sometimes the food contained therein tastes liek plastic aswell!

So by encouraging us to reuse plastic bags all of 0.000001% of plastic used by these monsters will be saved. As for carbon emissions, compared to running fleets of delivery lorries then having heated shops with open fridges and freezers, should we really give a damn?

68- Our glorious leaders are having yet another "WAR ON DRINKING". Maybe they should stop having wars (on poverty, yobs, superbugs and even sovereign nations) and just let people get on with their lives. If the middle classes drink too much wine, as long as they aren't fighting and puking in the street, what is the govts place to intervene?

If extended drinking hours are causing public order problems, put a punitive charge on the license for pubs / clubs that open late and / or are troublesome that they will have to pass on in higher drink prices.

But raising the price of cigarettes and petrol to ridiculous levels via taxation has had quite the opposite effect on consumption, so why do they think booze is any different. OK, there is an economic argument to be made that you should tax the things people enjoy as you will take more taxes (if you tax something people don't particularly like and can choose not to do they will stop doing it) but be honest about it!

And they should be careful about sobering us all up, we might notice what a mess they are making of things and gather in Parliament Square with pitchforks and ropes, not to mention that the bars in the palaces of Westminster are heavily subsidised!

[Win2Win]

68 - All these laws to plug up 'holes' remind me of the 'Shared Space' concept with the roads that has proven to work so well. Take away the pavements, painted lines, lights, road signs, etc, and eventually the people work everything out and respect each other rather than Car v Pedestrian. Proven to have less speed, less accidents, etc

It's about time the government, who ever is in power, started to put the public back in control of our own lives, this 'It is always someone elses fault' culture is based on the fact the government after government have been sticking more laws in to plu loopholes, rather than looking at the basic issue.

[wb]

67- Oooh look at that environmentally aware supermarket Marks & Spencer. Making people pay 5p for a plastic bag is just sooooo right on, I mean they choke turtles and cause carbon emissions, right?

There is a 22 cent tax on all plastic bags in Ireland, and the shops are not allowed to absorb the cost. I have to say, it actually works. Not that it's going to save the world or anything, but there seems to be (slightly) less litter.

[Jonny2621]

Take a look at the shelves in whichever supermarket you use and look at all the packaging they use to put stuff on the shelf. Tons and tons of boxes, plastic dispensers etc. Whats wrong with the shelves we used to have? Why does everything have to put in a box, then be put on the shelf.

I was in Tesco's yesterday and a guy was going down the aisle, picking the empty dispenser boxes off the shelf. He was folding or ripping them up and stuffing them in a plastic container. So obviously they are not reused. They may be recycled, but that requires a whole load of Co2 in itself. Are they really needed at all.

I bought my kids some easter eggs. They were in a foil wrapper, inside a plastic clamshell inside the manufacturer's box. Fair enough...I suppose all of that keeps them fresh and unbroken. But then they had 6 or so of the boxes in a tesco's cardboard dispenser on the shelf. Why ? The easter egg boxes would sit neat and tidy on the shelf, why did they need to be inside yet another box that is only going to thrown away after 1/2 a day?

All this baloney about the plastic bags isnt addressing the real issues with the waste these guys create. Its PR as usual with no real substance.

[Onlyforfun]

68 - All these laws to plug up 'holes' remind me of the 'Shared Space' concept with the roads that has proven to work so well. Take away the pavements, painted lines, lights, road signs, etc, and eventually the people work everything out and respect each other rather than Car v Pedestrian. Proven to have less speed, less accidents, etc

It's about time the government, who ever is in power, started to put the public back in control of our own lives, this 'It is always someone elses fault' culture is based on the fact the government after government have been sticking more laws in to plu loopholes, rather than looking at the basic issue.

Spot on, the knee jerk reaction of this lot is "if in doubt, bring in more legislation". We are promised legislation to crack down on yobbish, drunken teenagers (weren't we all???), for example, when there are already perfectly good catch all laws such as breach of the peace and on underage drinking. The problem is one of enforcement, not the laws themselves.

I was talking to the wife about this the other day and as little as 15 years ago if you were causing trouble someone would call the police, they'd come and chase you and if you got caught they'd put you in the back of the police car, take you home to your parents and hang around while you got a *******ing or a slap.

These days "concerned citizen" would be too scared to call in case of reprisals, if they did they would get a call centre if they were lucky, then at best a couple of pretend Police would show up and if they weren't too scared would try to move them along, if it got nasty then maybe some real Police might turn up, if they decided to pick you up they would have to arrest you and fill in various forms, then if they took you home and your parents gave you a slap they'd have to arrest them!

:splapme:splapme:splapme

[Onlyforfun]

69- That barbarous relic of the dark ages has been making a fool of itself again.

"The Vatican has extended its list of mortal sins to include 21st century issues such as genetic experimentation, pollution, social injustice, drug abuse and excessive wealth."

I doubt that particular pronouncement will apply to the RC church or the whole lot of them would be damned, and anyway, if they want to address wealth inequality wouldn't they be better to make being poor a mortal sin???

[Win2Win]

genetic experimentation


...or another name for it.....EVOLUTION.

[Win2Win]

70. "I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of Europe" :ermmm

Get in the real world you prats!

[buddhabee]

I notice 'shagging choirboys' hasn't been included.

[Win2Win]

I notice 'shagging choirboys' hasn't been included.

Well 'blow me' he didn't......