Jamie Spencer

[alexpro7]

What are peoples thoughts on Jamie Spencer. Gets a lot of criticism.
Is it justified?

[Win2Win]

Is it justified?

No.

He keeps getting slated for holding horses up, and not getting to the line on time, and yet over 50% of the horses in every race are held up, and if he got it wrong so many times, how come his seasonal SR is 19.2%, and the nearest to him is Sanders with 16.9%? :doh

If all these armchair jockeys thought he should get up on the line for every horse he rides coming with a finish, his SR would be over 40% :splapme

Jamie's SR is well over the average for any year, so he's doing BETTER not WORSE on all his rides than any other jockey.

It's the old 'perspective' word again, not understood by amateur punters.

[alexpro7]

Most of the criticism has been on favourites at short prices. Maybe it is just peoples frustration which is understandable.

[Win2Win]

Most of the criticism has been on favourites at short prices. Maybe it is just peoples frustration which is understandable.

The horse doesn't know what price it is, and only around 30% of Favs win, so if Jamie was riding ALL favs, then he's 10% down, however, the majority of his mounts aren't Favs.

[Merlin]

The label he hás today is of his own doing…..For instance , last year he said this:

¨When I was younger, I wanted to win every race but I'd win narrowly, even though I could have sat a few lengths closer and won more easily. I was winning on the wire to try to make an impression¨

This is clearly an admission that he is a showboater….:yikes:

There is also the conspiracy theory brigade – when you have connections with names like the following:
Ramsdens – by virtue of marriage…
John Magnier - is his Godfather
Barney Curley - brought him to England
There are bound to be those who think that he could be laying more than Emma…:laugh

But after all that, he probably doesn’t deserve all the criticism leveled against him….besides…very often the horses he rides are overbet….they start much shorter than they ought to…this then gives the impression that he loses more often than he should…but as Keith pointed out his stats belie this…

[Merlin]

Doing well today isn’t he…..on the exchanges:laugh

[Win2Win]

I love SEB ::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump

[Merlin]

Me too, my favourite Jock….nice guy…, too…

[Elbarto]

I think the criticism is justified. And for the following reason, how often do you hear of Dane O'Neill or Philip Robinson being criticised??? Very rarely mainly down to the fact that they are so tactically astute that they get the horse into the right position 99 times out of 100 and if the horse doesnt win its down to the horse not being good enough and not the jockey being bad.

Whereas with Jamie how often does he wait out the back and when it comes to win the race he gets caught in traffic and ends up losing a race he should have won. Ive said this before on here its 95% horse and 5% jockey but he rides like its 95% jockey and 5% horse. He was onboard a favourite recently that loves to be ridden prominently, however Mr Spencer knows best and holds the horse up, needless to say when push came to shove the horse had lost interest and ended up finishing mid division.

In my opinion if Jamie wishes to receive less flack he needs to ride the horse more to suit them and be more astute with his riding style otherwise hes gonna keep on getting flack. He could learn a thing or two from Philip Robinson!!

[Merlin]

Think someone will be aving a word in his ear soon....they will try their very best not to bring him in....particularly if he wins the title.......they wouldn’t want 2 champion jockets on the carpet…would they..:yikes:

[paul183195]

how many times would you say that jamie is following "instructions" though ?. also if he does win the title then he can"t be as bad as alot of people make out....... or can he !

[Street cry]

did i just hear Dane O'neill described as tactically astute :yikes:

[Win2Win]

With a 19.2% SR, Spencer is getting it statistically MORE right than EVERY other jockey, so I have no idea why he gets criticism.

Hang on, yes I do......

At the moment he's one of our top sports hero on the flat - We love to knock 'em down in this country don't we?
He obviously gets more media coverage than the others, plus being married to Emma ::hump gives him a bit of celeb status, so when he does make an error, and ALL jockeys do, he gets noticed more than M Bates getting trapped on the rails in an Amateur event at Wolves, and cantering over the line in 2nd in a gambled on Fav!
Being a well known jockey, and riding a high number of Favs, he is always carrying a lot of money, but as Merl pointed out earlier, they are overbet, around 70% of them are FALSE Favs, and even God would have a problem getting them over the line in first.
At 19.2% SR throughout what has been a dreadful season, is by far the best I have seen in years, so that means all the other jockeys, in say the last ten years, must be complete Charlie Chaplin's


The stats clearly speak for themselves, and if someone has difficulty deciphering stats, they need to learn how to interpetate them before placing another bet, or at the very least, keep there mouths shut about one of the countries top sportmen.

[Elbarto]

did i just hear Dane O'neill described as tactically astute :yikes:

Yes you have, how often though do you hear about him being slated though??



With a 19.2% SR, Spencer is getting it statistically MORE right than EVERY other jockey, so I have no idea why he gets criticism.

Hang on, yes I do......

At the moment he's one of our top sports hero on the flat - We love to knock 'em down in this country don't we?
He obviously gets more media coverage than the others, plus being married to Emma ::hump gives him a bit of celeb status, so when he does make an error, and ALL jockeys do, he gets noticed more than M Bates getting trapped on the rails in an Amateur event at Wolves, and cantering over the line in 2nd in a gambled on Fav!
Being a well known jockey, and riding a high number of Favs, he is always carrying a lot of money, but as Merl pointed out earlier, they are overbet, around 70% of them are FALSE Favs, and even God would have a problem getting them over the line in first.
At 19.2% SR throughout what has been a dreadful season, is by far the best I have seen in years, so that means all the other jockeys, in say the last ten years, must be complete Charlie Chaplin's


The stats clearly speak for themselves, and if someone has difficulty deciphering stats, they need to learn how to interpetate them before placing another bet, or at the very least, keep there mouths shut about one of the countries top sportmen.

Im not having a go at you personally but i think your statements can be answered.
For your list of criticism i have the following answers, some sports stars might be knocked but i havent heard much if any criticism for seb sanders, quite the opposite imo.

I dont disagree with your second quote about him getting more media coverage, but it aint as if Emma Spencer is jumping around on the morning line shouting "im married to jamie, im married to jamie lets talk about him"

Yes quite a number of the faves he is on shouldnt be faves but the same thing happens when a certain little italian is racing. Just look at the 7:45 at Windsor on monday Frankie was aboard a horse making its first appearance on the track against other more experienced horses, yet its still went off the 9/4 fave and finished near the back... go figure.

You aint looked down the stats figures for the current season then cause there are a number of jockeys with similar figures yet they aint being slagged off. Ryan Moore is on 19.1 but i hear no criticism for him Richard Hills is 18.4 and James Millman all be it a lot less rides has a strike rate of 25% :doh:doh
The slagging off of Jamie Spencer IMO will continue until he changes his riding style so he aint showing off by trying to constantly come with late runs. Kieren Fallon never did it, he races according to how the horse likes to be and to give it the best chance of winning, whereas as time has shown Jamie doesnt do this he races to suit himself more often then not

[Win2Win]

For your list of criticism i have the following answers, some sports stars might be knocked but i havent heard much if any criticism for seb sanders, quite the opposite imo.
...and yet the stats say Sanders is making more mistakes per 100 rides than Spencer.....Perspective.


Windsor on monday Frankie was aboard a horse making its first appearance on the track against other more experienced horses, yet its still went off the 9/4 fave and finished near the back... go figure.
The horse bled.


You aint looked down the stats figures for the current season then cause there are a number of jockeys with similar figures yet they aint being slagged off.
Yes I have but we are talking about Spencer who rides a lot of horse, and is a title contender. Richard Hills, critisism :laugh...use the SEARCH :D ...and Millman as you say, does not count as the SR can be fluked due to the number of rides.

Nothing wrong with Jamie's style, it is a winning one, look at the stats, I'm sure you can show him how to do it correctly though :)

[Elbarto]

...and yet the stats say Sanders is making more mistakes per 100 rides than Spencer.....Perspective.


The horse bled.


Yes I have but we are talking about Spencer who rides a lot of horse, and is a title contender. Richard Hills, critisism :laugh...use the SEARCH :D ...and Millman as you say, does not count as the SR can be fluked due to the number of rides.

Nothing wrong with Jamie's style, it is a winning one, look at the stats, I'm sure you can show him how to do it correctly though :)


Sanders may be making more mistakes but is he getting as much flack, no he aint. Thats because he is doing his damndest to get the horse to win, whereas spencer is more focused on looking good.

I didnt know that Al Naadhadth had bled but that explains his bad run, but you do see dettori horses being backed into favouritism when they shouldnt be.
If there is nothing wrong with Jamies style then why is he getting so much flack these days. Answer because hes more interested in coming late and making it look good rather then riding the horse to win.

[Onlyforfun]

The problem with Spencer is the way he rides makes it appear, rightly or wrongly, that he is underachieving. Personally I think he is 1 dimensional, but if you want someone to ride a hold up horse he's your man, otherwise, lay, lay, lay. If he was stable jock for M Johnson I reckon he'd be lucky to have a 1% s/r. (I don't think extreme hold up tactics are very popular with O'Brien either which may well be the source of that rift)

To take a footballing anology, few people credit Gascoigne as the most gifted footballer of his generation, they tend to lament how good he "could have been". And that is even true of guys like Best.

[Win2Win]

Jamie gets more flack becuase to start with, Joe Public do not understand stats, so a few complain, then the media jump on the bandwagon, this is now partly to do with RUK/ATR reading out emails from idiots talking through there pockets having lost 50p.

RUK/ATR if you listen to these channels all day, every day, a hell of a lot of jocks get stick. Murphy got it in the neck last week in at least 2 races, and look at his stats.....also McCoy got it in one race......GOD himself!!!!

If you take all the photo finish races were the horse was beaten less than 1", and ran them all again, say in another time paradox, I bet 50% of the time the result would turn out the opposite of the original. Nothing to do with a bad ride, that's just racing.

Look at Murphy at Perth the other week, forced the horses head down on the line to win by a pixel......did the other jockey give it a bad ride by not doing the same? Why did he not do it, the other jock managed it?

By the way, I can't stand Spencer :)

[Onlyforfun]

Spencer is merely efficient at riding his favoured style. He is not in the same league as a Fallon or Kinane when it comes to getting the best out of any individual horse. Sure, put him on a good horse and he will do as well as anyone, but he doesn't have "class".

[Win2Win]

..but he doesn't have "class".

That'll be because he's all spunked out after a night with Emma :rolleyes:

[Elbarto]

Spencer is merely efficient at riding his favoured style. He is not in the same league as a Fallon or Kinane when it comes to getting the best out of any individual horse. Sure, put him on a good horse and he will do as well as anyone, but he doesn't have "class".

Never a truer word said. If Spencer is as good as the stats make him out to be why was he sacked from the plum job of ballydoyle, because he can only ride one way. Fallon or Kinane to name but two are masters of the game and can ride from any position be it leading the way or holding up, spencer cant, all he can do with some efficiency is hold up the horse.

The public dont need to know stats Keith to know when a jockey did a good job or a bad one. When Jamie is holding up a horse that should be up at the front what does that say. To me its says the jockey cares more about making himself look good then winning by exploiting the horses best characteristics. Fallon or Kinane dont ride to make themselves look good, they ride cause its their job and they will do whats best to win. If Jamie altered his style a little and won more people wouldnt be slagging him but giving him the credit he deserves.

Put Spencer up against some proper jockeys and he wouldnt stand a chance. The level of top jockeys in the UK at the moment aint the greatest, Fallon is banned, Kinane is in Ireland, Frankie aint as committed as he was a few years back, Winston is banned, Philip Robinson aint riding as many, Ryan Moore is one of the few very very good jockeys there at the moment but has been hampered by injuries. The standard of jockeys is dropping. Bring in McCoy I say!!! :D:D

[bonnylad]

I think some times trainers/owners book Jamie because they know his style will not suit their horse.The horse will have a easy race,look out of form.The next time out in a better race with different jockey will probably go close.
I remember Lester Piggot wasn't a sure thing on odds on knocking bets.My old man wanted to wring his neck on many occasions.




I asked the Doctor for some viagra eye drops.He said."Don't you want tablets." I said."No,I just want to look hard" He said,"I'll give you the tablets too.They will stop you rolling out of the bed in the night."

[Win2Win]

Sit down, and watch EVERY race for a week. And write down the the name of the jockey who holds horses up. IE. At the back/mid-divison. As this covers at least 85% of all horses you'll have a long list, and Jamie does not come out as No.1 when you work out the ratio of hold-up to rides.

As Bonny points out, he is booked by trainers for his riding skills & style, and has to ride to there orders.


The public dont need to know stats Keith to know when a jockey did a good job or a bad one
And this clearly explains why only 0.7% of people make decent profits from racing, and I thank them for not being :butthead: about understanfing stats, otherwise they might then start to give me less profits. :D Professional gambling is based on stats and the balance of probability, even value betting is statistical :yikes: I you can't cleary see how good a jockey is by the stats, then more power to the pro's :thumbs

[Fadetoblack]

I cut out a headline from the racing post last year.

"Spencer holds up Jockey Club enquiries"

Made me laugh anyway, I wonder if the copywriter knew what he was doing...

[Merlin]

The goosip is that Emma told her girlfriends that Jamie rides her eaxctly the way he rides his horses...

[Elbarto]

Sit down, and watch EVERY race for a week. And write down the the name of the jockey who holds horses up. IE. At the back/mid-divison. As this covers at least 85% of all horses you'll have a long list, and Jamie does not come out as No.1 when you work out the ratio of hold-up to rides.



As Bonny points out, he is booked by trainers for his riding skills & style, and has to ride to there orders.

I wouldnt necessarily agree with this, i think the jockeys who are higher up the ladder are told what the horse likes ie positioning but the final decision is left to the jockeys.



And this clearly explains why only 0.7% of people make decent profits from racing, and I thank them for not being :butthead: about understanfing stats, otherwise they might then start to give me less profits. :D Professional gambling is based on stats and the balance of probability, even value betting is statistical :yikes: I you can't cleary see how good a jockey is by the stats, then more power to the pro's :thumbs

You misunderstood me here what i meant was that although jockeys aint perfect, when theyve obviously made a mistake, eg Frankies ride aboard Authorised last time out, they could have the best strike rate but will still be slagged for that bad ride. If Jamie rode closer to the pace ive no doubt that the Championship would be his at this stage, but with his riding style he aint clear yet and has annoyed punters with his hold up tactics when if he rode closer he would have won easier. Stats are a big factor in racing, but the more important things are the going and the horse itself, its 95% horse 5% jockey but jamie thinks its 95% jockey 5% horse.

As Merlin said before Jamie admitted in an interview that he would rather win by a neck then a few lengths, which to me is disrespectful, McCoy or Fallon wouldnt do this and thats why they are so well respected. They go out there to win only and not show boat by coming home just infront.

Jamie should more cockyness recently when onboard a fave backed in from 9/4 to evens i think, at the 2 pole he was cruising and had a good look around as if to say "lads no need to punish your horses this is my race" he ended up only winning by under a lenght and a half going flat out on the horse. For me he doesnt show enough respect and as a result I think will continue to get stick for his riding syle.

We could sit here and argue till we are blue in the face but thats the wonderful thing about opinions each is entitled to their own. Jamie in my opinion will continue to get stick for his riding style but as you pointed out his strike rate shows how well he is doing this year, but if he changed his riding style i know his strike rate would be even better

[Merlin]

If Harry Wragg was the Head Waiter , then Jamie Boy must be the Dumb Waiter…:laugh

[mathare]

If it is 95% horse and 5% jockey where does the going factor in Elbarto? You said it is important so how much is horse, how much is going and how much is jockey?

And if it is only 5% jockey that makes him 19 times less important than the horse so surely how good the jock is becomes almost irrelevant. You're admitting with these percentages that the majority of the ones Jamie Spencer doesn't win on aren't good enough to win anyway, else they'd win regardless of the passenger. So while Mr Spencer adopting your mega riding style may improve his SR a gnat's it's not going to make any real difference is it? He needs better horses not a better riding style as the horse is 19 times more important.

[scoobydoo]

.....but lets talk more about Emma....!! :lickme I'd retire if I was Spencer and stay at home all day...:D

[bonnylad]

.....but lets talk more about Emma....!! :lickme I'd retire if I was Spencer and stay at home all day...:D

You probably be flogging a dead horse after a couple of years.





How do you know the wife's dead?---sex is the same.--It's just when you notice the laundry pile up.

[Elbarto]

If it is 95% horse and 5% jockey where does the going factor in Elbarto? You said it is important so how much is horse, how much is going and how much is jockey?

And if it is only 5% jockey that makes him 19 times less important than the horse so surely how good the jock is becomes almost irrelevant. You're admitting with these percentages that the majority of the ones Jamie Spencer doesn't win on aren't good enough to win anyway, else they'd win regardless of the passenger. So while Mr Spencer adopting your mega riding style may improve his SR a gnat's it's not going to make any real difference is it? He needs better horses not a better riding style as the horse is 19 times more important.

Ok I might be a bit ambitious in saying thats its 95% horse 5% jockey, but if a horse is good enough to win a race and given a good enough ride then it should win it. If you look at the Derby this year with Authorised any jockey would have won onboard that horse this year. The going comes under the horse part. As the horse will either like the ground or not. If you look at Jamies rides from two days ago at Yarmouth the prices were absurd. Hardly any of them should have gone off the prices they did. Just because a horse is priced as the favourite doesnt mean its the best horse in the race.

Tintorero in the first was priced at 16/1, 16/1, 25/1 in its previous 3 starts yet when jamies onboard it opens at 8/11, and was duely beaten in the race.

Tarkamara in the second was probably priced correctly at 8/15 at the off as it looked like it was the one to beat

Luck will come priced at 7/4f in the third was raised 6lbs for winning by a head last time out, under pat cosgrave who rode the horse prominently, yet jamie held the horse up and was beaten by nearly 2 lengths. The extra weight didnt help it and thus was going to win.

Kaveri in the 4th on its 6 previous races finished in the top 3 once and was mainly near the back for the others. However in the one race it finished 2nd its was raced at the front and just beaten, jamie gets onboard and chases the leaders yet finishes down the field but the horse started at 5/2 favourite.

I could go on through the rest of the races that day and say which ones were badly priced but i think the aforementioned races paint a nice picture. Of the 4 ive talked about Tarkamara was the only one in my opinion was right to go off the price it did, while a lot seemed to go off at the price they did just because of who the passenger was, but thats just my opinion.

The jockey has to help the horse by riding it to suit the horse. Look at Melalchrist in the 3:10 at Beverley two days ago, that horse loves to blaze his way from the front. If Jamie was onboard and held up the horse it wouldnt have won. If a jockey rides a race to suit himself and not the race invariably he wont win, in my opinion.

[mathare]

Tintorero in the first was priced at 16/1, 16/1, 25/1 in its previous 3 starts yet when jamies onboard it opens at 8/11, and was duely beaten in the race.Are you comparing apples with apples here? Are the race classes and distances the same? Or was the horse entered in a more suitable race when it opened at 8/11 and regardless of the jockey it would have opened at a low price?

[vegyjones]

Granny Smiths are better than Golden Delicious!

[Elbarto]

Are you comparing apples with apples here? Are the race classes and distances the same? Or was the horse entered in a more suitable race when it opened at 8/11 and regardless of the jockey it would have opened at a low price?

Its all down to whether you fancy the horses chances or not in the race me personally i didnt and thought the price was ridiculous. This topic is starting to veer off course. It was originally about whether people thought the criticism for Jamie was justified, i think it is.

[Win2Win]

Jamie admitted in an interview that he would rather win by a neck then a few lengths, which to me is disrespectful, McCoy or Fallon
The last two DO try to win by a neck, especially in handicaps.....aka Fallon is arrested after dropping his hands to win by a cosy margin.....don't remember spencer being arrested for that.



i think the jockeys who are higher up the ladder are told what the horse likes ie positioning but the final decision is left to the jockeys.
You think wrong. 99%+ of horses have to be ridden to order, the jockey is just the chauffeur regardless how good he is. Go and stand in the paddock listening to the trainer talk to a jockey.

John Gosden in a recent interview, says jockeys make no difference to whether a horse wins or not, if the horse is good enough it will win, a jockeys quality 'may' only come into it in a tight battle at the finish.......and who am I to disagree with one of the masters of training?

Regardless of whether a horse is held up last, it still has to cover EXACTLY the same distance as the one in front. A lot of folk seem to forget this, and think the one at the back has to cover more ground at the finish! :doh

[scoobydoo]

Granny Smiths are better than Golden Delicious!

Vegy...I thought you might be a Cox man? :rolleyes:

[Elbarto]

Vegy...I thought you might be a Cox man? :rolleyes:

Quote of the day for me :D


The last two DO try to win by a neck, especially in handicaps.....aka Fallon is arrested after dropping his hands to win by a cosy margin.....don't remember spencer being arrested for that. Maybe they do try to win by a neck but at least they give the horse the best opportunity to do so, unlike Jamie who by holding the horse up has less chances of winning by having to dodge his way through horses to get to the front.




You think wrong. 99%+ of horses have to be ridden to order, the jockey is just the chauffeur regardless how good he is. Go and stand in the paddock listening to the trainer talk to a jockey.

Then how come in the Eclipse Peter Chapple-Hyam told Ryan Moore that it was up to him which side of the track he came up on?? And Jessie Harrington said that she left the tactics of Moscow Flyers races up to Barry Geraghty??



John Gosden in a recent interview, says jockeys make no difference to whether a horse wins or not, if the horse is good enough it will win, a jockeys quality 'may' only come into it in a tight battle at the finish.......and who am I to disagree with one of the masters of training?

Thats precisely what ive been saying its most down to the horse and the jockey is only needed if its going to be a tight finish.




Regardless of whether a horse is held up last, it still has to cover EXACTLY the same distance as the one in front. A lot of folk seem to forget this, and think the one at the back has to cover more ground at the finish! :doh

Yes that is true however, when the ground is heavy holding up the horse is pointless as 9 times outta 10 you want to be up with the pace when the going is testing. But a hold up horse will also need a good turn of foot to make up the lost ground on the leaders, and if it doesnt have it it wont catch the front runners. Thats why the ground and the horses preference come highly into play.

I cant remember the last time theres been such a big debate on one topic in recent times on here.

[Win2Win]

Then how come in the Eclipse Peter Chapple-Hyam told Ryan Moore that it was up to him which side of the track he came up on?? And Jessie Harrington said that she left the tactics of Moscow Flyers races up to Barry Geraghty??
100% - 99% = 1% :doh That equate to NOT EVERY horse requires instructions, especially those with sheer class.


when the ground is heavy holding up the horse is pointless as 9 times outta 10 you want to be up with the pace when the going is testing.
This actually depends on which track we are talking about. Heavy ground at Chester means plenty of horses come from behind, in fact I don't think many front runners win. Why? Because the horses are all running below average speed being on the turn all the time, and therefor conserving energy. This happens on may tracks, depends on where the final bend is, race distance, ups & downs, so your generic statement is incorrect.

[mathare]

This topic is starting to veer off course. It was originally about whether people thought the criticism for Jamie was justified, i think it is.And people have expressed the opinion that they don't think it is justified but from I have read you just keep responding with arguments along the lines of "Yeah, but I still think he has a rubbish style and could be better." You asked for opinions, got them and keep giving the same one back in response. The debate is hardly moving on is it?

[Merlin]

Thats what I thought...

[mathare]

Thats what I thought...:yikes:

You feeling OK Merlin? :wink

[Win2Win]

:yikes:

You feeling OK Merlin? :wink

About agreeing? Or the thinking bit!! :rolleyes:

[Merlin]

I thought Vegy might like Cox

[mathare]

About agreeing? Or the thinking bit!! :rolleyes::laugh

[Guesser]

as an amateur punter ( mainly lay bets) the only I can say about Jamies rides,
hands off, you never know when to back or lay him

[Merlin]

The dumb waiter is not so dumb...Falconry.....

[Elbarto]

And people have expressed the opinion that they don't think it is justified but from I have read you just keep responding with arguments along the lines of "Yeah, but I still think he has a rubbish style and could be better." You asked for opinions, got them and keep giving the same one back in response. The debate is hardly moving on is it?

Fine so ill say no more and lets have some other peoples opinions

[Merlin]

Providing Jamie Spencer dont bring racing into disrepute....if you know wot i meen.....:laugh

History will clearly judge him as a very, very good jockey............

[Win2Win]

Providing Jamie Spencer dont bring racing into disrepute....if you know wot i meen.....:laugh

History will clearly judge him as a very, very good jockey............

....along with Bush a good President....Blair a PM.......:yikes:

[Onlyforfun]

I do agree with a lot of what Elbarto is saying. Strike Rate has to be put into perspective of the quality of horse, measured by prize money even taking into account Fallons long ban.

Fallon £14.5million
Spencer £9.4million

Or to look at it another way, the true measure of a jockey could be Group success and Maiden winners as both are arguably the truer test of horsemanship than Handicaps or sellers for example.

Group Races:
Fallon 19%
Spencer 12%

Maidens:
Fallon 24%
Spencer 21%

Or on a purely empirical basis, when do you ever remember Spencer giving a horse a sublime ride winning when he had no right to?

I repeat, he is efficient, but he is not "great". Then again, he rides a lot for Fanshawe who seems to like his horses held up even when the evidence is by no means conclusive that this is the best option, e.g., Soviet Song did not need to be held up out the back, she never pulled herself up in front.

[Win2Win]

Or on a purely empirical basis, when do you ever remember Spencer giving a horse a sublime ride winning when he had no right to?
Yesterday on Colwyn Bay.

[Merlin]

Are we talking about HORSE RACING or JOCKEY RACING?

:yikes:

[Jonny2621]

Agree Colwyn Bay was a great ride, dragged the bloomin thing kicking and screaming to the line. It really didnt want to win....

The loonies on the betfair forum are always lambasting Spencer, R Hills, K McEvoy, Nicky Mackay, Dane O'Neill to name but a few and others for what the posers consider rubbish rides. There are never threads posted when they win.

I think the morons on there forget there is a horse, trainer, going, type of track not to mention 'orders' to take into account, but then they are talking through their pocket I guess

[Merlin]

That Betfair forum is soooooooo embarrasing, Jon........I cringe when I read anything there...:yikes:

[Merlin]

Will Hill Radio...

'Spencer is the most over-rated jockey who has ever thrown his leg over a horse, :laugh

[Win2Win]

Will Hill Radio...

'Spencer is the most over-rated jockey who has ever thrown his leg over a horse, :laugh

...and we all know these commentators are pro-gamblers......eh Thommo? :wink

[Jonny2621]

That Betfair forum is soooooooo embarrasing, Jon........I cringe when I read anything there...:yikes:

I usually have a chuckle Merl, its pretty amusing in a sort of car crash forum way :doh:laugh

[sparkyminer]

Agree Colwyn Bay was a great ride, dragged the bloomin thing kicking and screaming to the line. It really didnt want to win....

The loonies on the betfair forum are always lambasting Spencer, R Hills, K McEvoy, Nicky Mackay, Dane O'Neill to name but a few and others for what the posers consider rubbish rides. There are never threads posted when they win.

I think the morons on there forget there is a horse, trainer, going, type of track not to mention 'orders' to take into account, but then they are talking through their pocket I guess

I didn't think anyone ever lost on the Betfair forums.:)

[buddhabee]

John Gosden in a recent interview, says jockeys make no difference to whether a horse wins or not, ...and who am I to disagree with one of the masters of training?


I'd disagree. There are times when the jockey makes all the difference. I've seen McCoy drive a horse to be first to the post from a seemingly hopeless position.

[Win2Win]

What Gosden means is almost any jockey can do it on a winning horse regardless of who it is.

McCoy is a bonus due to the fact he very rarely unseats when other will, but many jockeys would ride a winning finish if replacing McCoy on the same horse, as long as they have the strength, which most have........How many female jump jocks do we have? :)

[Onlyforfun]

My final thought on teh matter. As I've said, he's good, but not great. Forget pro-gamblers, the convincing evidence is from the real professionals, Stoute and O'Brien only use him as a last resort when their top 3 or 4 are unavailable.

[tophatter]

At the end of the day we have no control what jockeys are put on which horses. If you feel so strongly that the jockey is no good then either dont bet on the horse or lay it! Jocks tend to be the last thing i look at, its all about the horse for me, the market and who trains the thing. I would never be put off a horse I fancy by the jock but I have been put off a jock by the horse!

[scoobydoo]

Well Im not his biggest fan at the moment...got up on the line with Red Evie! Not talking through my pocket though....honest!!:headbange:)

[Merlin]

Come on Jamie and Lovelace....

[Win2Win]

I couldn't care less about the jockeys today, as long as at least one gets the damn beast head infront 6x seconds :headbange

[Merlin]

What a jockey........:laugh

Aidans loss is our gain...:laugh

[scoobydoo]

I couldn't care less about the jockeys today, as long as at least one gets the damn beast head infront 6x seconds :headbange

Yeah 2nds here as well....Lusaka de Pembo being the biggest killer! :cryer