D2N Tracker

[MattR]

Inspired by Johnny's record keeping thought I'd record mine here too for the D2N tournaments. The first few were at varying buy in's but have now settled for the time being on the $12.10. 6 places, 3 pay. Placing of 1st to 3rd is of course pretty irrelevant as it's just an all-in fest to close the tournament.

19/11
5th

20/11
1st

21/11
3rd

22/11
3rd

24/11
4th
2nd
1st
2nd
6th

25/11
4th
3rd
1st
3rd
3rd

28/11
4th

4/12
3rd
4th
3rd
5th
3rd
3rd
1st
3rd



Stats
Tourneys 23
In the Money 16
Win % 69.56%

[counterfeit]

Superb record. I guess you make a handsome profit if you get over 60% in these tourneys.

[MattR]

Yes if you can keep it over 60% then it will turn a steady profit especially as the buy in increases. Early days of course but I'm really pleased with how it's gone so far. Again it's only up to $12.10 buy in and on yesterdays exchange rate that was a win of £6.91 or buy in loss of £8.23. Yesterday was 6 wins from 8 games for a £24 odd profit. Not life shattering obviously but that was only around 3 hours play in total so not a too shoddy £8 per hour for playing cards :laugh What I'd like to do is keep going with the $12 for a while to see that I can keep a good strike rate going. My confidence at this level is high at the moment with the run I've had but I want to see how I react if/when I get a bad run at this level. If I can keep up that strike rate then I'll move up to the next value and so on.

The highest buy-in on these is $108 which would equate at the moment to about a £75 buy in loss or a win of £62. So 2/3 would give you around £50 profit. At the moment the games seem to take anywhere between 15-30 mins depending on the number of muppets crashing out early or not. So even allowing for more cautious play at higher buy ins I would think 3 perhaps 4 games could be played in a 2 hour spell. So 2/3 in a two hour spell for £50 would be very nice! But that's a way off yet and I may not get to that level anyway. I want to take it steady and stay where I can hit the 60% mark, so if I move up at any stage and find suddenly I'm only getting a 50% strike rate then I'll know where to stay.

[John]

Really nice set of results Matt, well done. :)

Might have to try my hand at a few of these, patience is probably imperative.

Out of interest what happened in the tourneys where you came 4th, if you can remember any of the situations?

[MattR]

Thanks John. Off the top of my head one was a tournament I had absolutely no hands to work with at all and my stack just dwindled and dwindled until I just risked going all in with about 200 left having paid the bb already, on something like 34s or some such hand. Another I got a bit unlucky with, had a flush and got beaten on the river with a full house.

[MattR]

Had a crap small session on friday, really shouldn't have played, had other things on my mind and played like a :icon_tong.

5/12
5th
2nd
6th
4th

7/12
3rd
4th
3rd
2nd
3rd
5th
4th
1st
5th


Good start to today then lost two in a row. Just played another two now, won 1 and then a 5th but I had virtually nothing to play the whole game. The one time I had something even half decent (AJ) there were two all in bets before it got to me.

May play a couple more later on.



Stats
Tourneys 36
In the Money 22
Win % 61.11%

[MattR]

Had some money in Paddy Power so moved it into their poker area and played some $10 10 pays 5 tournaments

8/12
2nd
3rd
6th
5th
5th

[counterfeit]

vv nice

[mathare]

All this poker talk is really making me want to play again but I have too much other stuff to get sorted out first. :(

I am trying really hard to stay off the tables until I have addressed all the pressing issues. I want to be free of the guilt factor when I play, i.e. I don't want other things bouncing around in my head when I know I 'should' be doing those things first. And the RP's new site will keep me off the tables for another few weeks while I rewrite Auto-Sys.

On the plus side I am reading more and more about the game though so I should be better prepared when I do finally get back on the tables

[MattR]

8/12
5th


Thanks CF. Just got in the money again. Down to the bubble with 3 of us on around 1000 chips, chip leader well out on front on 6000, who also was unfortunately to my right and stealing all my blinds with all-ins towards the end. But stuck in there and the two others got into an all-in fight and that was that.

This was the third game in a row where I've had nothing to play and have made the money twice by just being patient. This game I won the first hand putting me up to 1900 chips, second game I won with a pre flop raise and I honestly never saw a flop again! Had about 4 picture cards in all that time and none with anything higher than a 5 and none suited.

It seems so far on these that if the cards aren't falling kindly if you wait and pick your moments you can just stick around and get through more often than not. If you get something to play and get yourself up around 2500-3000 chips then that should see you through.



Sorry Mat! Maybe you can allow yourself one tournament a night or something just to tide yourself over!

[mathare]

Sorry Mat! Maybe you can allow yourself one tournament a night or something just to tide yourself over!If I had any discipline and one tourney meant only one then perhaps. But I have no discipline and I know I will play more than just one a night. Plus I am trying to play more cash games now so there is no fixed end point which means opening up a cash table could see me there all night. I have to stay strong and steer clear of the tables for a while. Once I get the hard work out the way maybe I can mix it with some poker to keep me happy

[MattR]

Right, well pleased with today!

To round up here's all of todays in one


8/12
2nd
3rd
6th
5th
5th
5th
7th
1st

$11 buy in and nett $9 win, so profit of $32 :)


Stats
Tourneys 44
In the Money 28
Win % 63.6%

[counterfeit]

How come the win is only worth $9?

[mathare]

How come the win is only worth $9?$10+$1 buy-in and a 10 pays 5 tourney so $20 for a top 5 finish giving a $9 profit

[MattR]

Played one final game and as there wasn't a $10 about to start I thought I'd give the $20 a go.

8/12
2nd :)

[counterfeit]

$10+$1 buy-in and a 10 pays 5 tourney so $20 for a top 5 finish giving a $9 profit

:splapme

I read the first post which shows $12.10 buy in. No wonder I was confused - it was a totally different STT.

What a :icon_tong i am.

[MattR]

Played a couple of 6 pays 3 rather than the 10/5 $11 buy-in

9/12
2nd
3rd

[MattR]

another one played

3rd


Some of the decision making I see in these really astounds me given the situations. I'm new to this online poker lark so maybe I'm wrong but take this that just happened.

At the bubble, 4 of us left in a 6 pays 3.

one guy on 1500 chips
SB on 5200 odd
me (BB) on 800 (with 400 blind off)
other guy on 1040

1040 chip guy folds. 1500 chip guy goes all in, SB calls all in and I fold (we'll come to what I had in bottom paragraph)

Cards turn over and 1500 chip guy has A4s. Is it really worth an all in attempt to steal the 600 blinds with A4s when the SB guy has 5000 chips to play with so is very likely to call if he has anything half decent given that he'll be expecting the all-in steal attempt. As it happens he had pocket 2's and nothing came on the table to help the A4s so that was that and another payout thanks to a seemingly (to me at least) pointless decision.

As it happened I also had AKo but saw no reason to go all-in with both of them when a favourable result would see me in the payouts. Interested to know from those with more experience whether I was right to fold that given the circumstances. The way I saw it with two going all in I didn't want to risk the chance of a pocket pair putting me out of the game in that situation and with the chance that the 1500 guy was about to say goodbye.

[mathare]

At the bubble, 4 of us left in a 6 pays 3.

one guy on 1500 chips
SB on 5200 odd
me (BB) on 800 (with 400 blind off)
other guy on 1040

1040 chip guy folds. 1500 chip guy goes all in, SB calls all in and I fold (we'll come to what I had in bottom paragraph)Let's just hold it there. With the blinds at 200/400 (I assume from what you say about your stack) there are three very short stacks here so it's wait to see who busts first. The button rightly shoves and the SB rightly calls. You fold, but was it the right move? The SB can afford to double the button up, i.e. he can lose the hand and be OK. But if the SB busts the button the game is over and the remaining players get the cash. If you think you can beat the button you should be pushing here but if you think you're behind the fold is correct, despite the short stack. This is a unique feature of these equal payout tourneys. At this point I haven't scrolled down to see what you had...

Cards turn over and 1500 chip guy has A4s. Is it really worth an all in attempt to steal the 600 blinds with A4s when the SB guy has 5000 chips to play with so is very likely to call if he has anything half decent given that he'll be expecting the all-in steal attempt. As it happens he had pocket 2's and nothing came on the table to help the A4s so that was that and another payout thanks to a seemingly (to me at least) pointless decision. Yes, it was worth the steal attempt. The button is in a good position and has a decent hand. That Ace is very strong in this position. He knows you're basically committed - how many more hands can you fold? - so his shove is aimed at you, not the SB. What the SB does here is rather irrelevant. The button is trying to knock you out and end the game. If you and the SB calls and the SB wins he knocks two of you out but the button finishes 3rd as he had more chips at the start of the hand; that's why he wants you to call and A4s is a good hand to do it with. I'd do exactly the same in his position. As it was he was in a race with the SB so couldn't really have asked for much more after you folded.

As it happened I also had AKo but saw no reason to go all-in with both of them when a favourable result would see me in the payouts. Interested to know from those with more experience whether I was right to fold that given the circumstances. The way I saw it with two going all in I didn't want to risk the chance of a pocket pair putting me out of the game in that situation and with the chance that the 1500 guy was about to say goodbye.Hmmm. In hindsight a good fold given the way the hand played out. It's a good hand to get in a bad position though. If that A4s had have held up you'd be in deep poo and for that reason I'd have taken my chances with a killer hand like AKo. You had the button dominated, which you would have to expect given your starting hand.

As it played out you made the money with your decision and I wouldn't have done but I would still have shoved with AKo there

[MattR]

Thanks for the analysis and advice Mat, appreciated and some good pointers there. Looking back on it I think one of the main reasons I folded was my experiences so far in this position since I've been doing the double to nothing games. So many times now I've seen people knock themselves out from a better position than the short stack, sometimes a way better position. It seems to pay to wait things out in this type of tournament or at least that's what I've seen to date.

If the SB hadn't called I would definitely have gone in, but without a pair or suited I thought that even if neither had a pair it only takes one lucky card for either of them and I'm out. I generally don't like going all in when more than one already has unless it's a favourable situation. So I elected to wait and see who won the shootout. Whether long term that's the correct call.. well quite possibly not. I guess the situation and the players involved have to factor into it too. I figured with 800 chips left and a 200 sb next go, I still had 5-6 hands to get another chance to go in and also see if anyone else got themselves out in the meantime. The 1040 guy next to me was going to lose 600 over the next two hands if he got nothing or elected to go all in and loss so I saw it as a calculated gamble I guess. Would I do it again? Not entirely sure actually! Maybe the unconventiality of it works in my favour :laugh

[mathare]

Thanks for the analysis and advice Mat, appreciated and some good pointers there. Looking back on it I think one of the main reasons I folded was my experiences so far in this position since I've been doing the double to nothing games. So many times now I've seen people knock themselves out from a better position than the short stack, sometimes a way better position. It seems to pay to wait things out in this type of tournament or at least that's what I've seen to date. There certainly is an element of that, yeah. They go against normal STT strategy once you get outside the first few levels as you're trying to survive more than win it. Some people seem to miss this difference and play it as they would a standard STT.

If the SB hadn't called I would definitely have gone in, but without a pair or suited I thought that even if neither had a pair it only takes one lucky card for either of them and I'm out.Think of their ranges compared to yours though. With 4 players and 3 short stacks you can assume that the button is going to shove as he doesn't want you to pick up free chips from the SB if everyone folds. What can he shove with? On the basis that he will get a caller (his target is you) he can shove with high card but wants to avoid being dominated. He sees an Ace and goes for it. He could be dominated but it is unlikely that you also have an Ace and he has suited cards in his favour too. It's the right play. The SB doesn't care what anyone has though and he senses a chance to end it all here and now so calls. Again, the right play and one he can pull off with any two cards. So you expect the button to have at least one high card (Q+) and the SB to have any two cards. Against a pair, the worst hand you could reasonably face, you're 50-50 assuming it's not Aces or Kings. Your hand easily beats a lot of the range you'd be facing so a call would easily be justified.

I generally don't like going all in when more than one already has unless it's a favourable situation. So I elected to wait and see who won the shootout. Here it worked but had the A4s won the stacks on the next hand would be

SB (you): 600 (+200)
BB: 640 (+400)
UTG: 3400
Button: 3760

You're the short stack and would have to shove. If UTG and the button folds (which they shouldn't, at least one of them should shove with any two cards) you need to shove with any two cards but expect the BB to call as he can't afford to give you free chips. You're now in a situation where it's two random cards each - nowhere near as strong as having AKo. If you and the other short stack fold and continue to do so you will go out first due to the way the blinds fall, unless the big stacks clash hard enough to get all-in. The big stack (SB) in the original hand doesn't care too much about who wins the all-in but you do. You need the SB to win to maximise your chances. If the button wins you're certain to need at least one double up to survive.

I figured with 800 chips left and a 200 sb next go, I still had 5-6 hands to get another chance to go in and also see if anyone else got themselves out in the meantime.If you fold your SB that leaves you with 600 chips which is less than a min-raise on the BB. You'll get called for sure, whatever you go in with. You have no fold equity so you need a decent hand, a reasonable King or Ace most likely, or a pair. You also want to be opening the betting rather than calling so you have probably only 2-3 hands to pick up something worth going all-in with.

The 1040 guy next to me was going to lose 600 over the next two hands if he got nothing or elected to go all in and loss so I saw it as a calculated gamble I guess.Yeah, but he'd only lose his BB if someone raised. One of the big stacks should, else you have to but as he has you covered he'd call you almost all the time looking to get rid of you and make the cash. If he folds his BB to you he's a serious muppet! He could fold his SB, true. But in all likelihood he's going to either bust out on his BB if one of the big stacks raises, call an all-in from you (which if he loses he's all but out but if he wins you are definitely out) or pick up your SB if you turn coward on this hand. I don't think him losing exactly his BB is that likely. What happens that hand determines more what is likely on his SB but if it gets that far it's probably the last hand of the tourney as someone should be all-in this hand.

[John]

For once, I agree with every single thing Mat's said. :yikes:

Any Ace and even any King can be very strong to play in that position. I wonder what would have happened if UTG had pushed? Would the button have called?

Nevertheless Matt, your play resulted in you not bubbling and you made the final three, so that's all that matters. :)

[mathare]

I wonder what would have happened if UTG had pushed? Would the button have called?Put yourself in the button's shoes. UTG shoves all-in, what would you do? Do your cards matter? If so what's the weakest hand you'd play?

[counterfeit]

The only thing I disagree with Mat about is that he said the fold was a good one in hindsight.

IMO it wasn't. The position and cards should dictate the decision. If there is one thing I can guarantee is that if MattR always plays like that, he will be a loser overall.

That is not a criticism by the way nor is it meant to come across as anything but a fact. On the whole poker is a game of mathematics, mixed with luck and the ability to read people. It wasn't until I realised that the maths had to be right, that I started to make money playing poker.

Matt's fold was wrong on every count unfortunately. It was frightened poker. Even using hindsight it was a bad fold. I can see why Matt folded but that's because I see a lot of people who are afraid of losing. I used to be like that and then realised that blinding myself out of tourneys was not the road to money.

Actually, it is one of the reasons why I am a better cash player and a better Omaha player. Omaha is far more mathematically based than Holdem and in cash you can always reload if some idiot outdraws you. In tourneys of any description I do still tend to be too tight though I still wouldn't have folded AK pre-flop there.

[mathare]

The only thing I disagree with Mat about is that he said the fold was a good one in hindsight.I was basing that on results rather than expectation. In that case folding won money whereas shoving would have lost money so the wrong move had the right result. I didn't mean to say that that was the right move.

What you have to say here is spot on though.

[MattR]

Thanks for the input/advice guys, much appreciated. Pretty much this thread and a few other $1 and $2 buy-ins are all I've played to date, so still have lots to learn and this analysis is really useful :thumbs

[counterfeit]

Keep it up - it's going well so if you are a noob then you do seem to have some natural ability.