Jamie Spencer

[alexpro7]

What are peoples thoughts on Jamie Spencer. Gets a lot of criticism.
Is it justified?

[Win2Win]

Is it justified?

No.

He keeps getting slated for holding horses up, and not getting to the line on time, and yet over 50% of the horses in every race are held up, and if he got it wrong so many times, how come his seasonal SR is 19.2%, and the nearest to him is Sanders with 16.9%?

If all these armchair jockeys thought he should get up on the line for every horse he rides coming with a finish, his SR would be over 40% :splapme

Jamie's SR is well over the average for any year, so he's doing BETTER not WORSE on all his rides than any other jockey.

It's the old 'perspective' word again, not understood by amateur punters.

[alexpro7]

Most of the criticism has been on favourites at short prices. Maybe it is just peoples frustration which is understandable.

[Win2Win]

Most of the criticism has been on favourites at short prices. Maybe it is just peoples frustration which is understandable.

The horse doesn't know what price it is, and only around 30% of Favs win, so if Jamie was riding ALL favs, then he's 10% down, however, the majority of his mounts aren't Favs.

[Merlin]

The label he hás today is of his own doing…..For instance , last year he said this:

¨When I was younger, I wanted to win every race but I'd win narrowly, even though I could have sat a few lengths closer and won more easily. I was winning on the wire to try to make an impression¨

This is clearly an admission that he is a showboater….

There is also the conspiracy theory brigade – when you have connections with names like the following:
Ramsdens – by virtue of marriage…
John Magnier - is his Godfather
Barney Curley - brought him to England
There are bound to be those who think that he could be laying more than Emma…

But after all that, he probably doesn’t deserve all the criticism leveled against him….besides…very often the horses he rides are overbet….they start much shorter than they ought to…this then gives the impression that he loses more often than he should…but as Keith pointed out his stats belie this…

[Merlin]

Doing well today isn’t he…..on the exchanges

[Win2Win]

I love SEB

[Merlin]

Me too, my favourite Jock….nice guy…, too…

[Elbarto]

I think the criticism is justified. And for the following reason, how often do you hear of Dane O'Neill or Philip Robinson being criticised??? Very rarely mainly down to the fact that they are so tactically astute that they get the horse into the right position 99 times out of 100 and if the horse doesnt win its down to the horse not being good enough and not the jockey being bad.

Whereas with Jamie how often does he wait out the back and when it comes to win the race he gets caught in traffic and ends up losing a race he should have won. Ive said this before on here its 95% horse and 5% jockey but he rides like its 95% jockey and 5% horse. He was onboard a favourite recently that loves to be ridden prominently, however Mr Spencer knows best and holds the horse up, needless to say when push came to shove the horse had lost interest and ended up finishing mid division.

In my opinion if Jamie wishes to receive less flack he needs to ride the horse more to suit them and be more astute with his riding style otherwise hes gonna keep on getting flack. He could learn a thing or two from Philip Robinson!!

[Merlin]

Think someone will be aving a word in his ear soon....they will try their very best not to bring him in....particularly if he wins the title.......they wouldn’t want 2 champion jockets on the carpet…would they..

[paul183195]

how many times would you say that jamie is following "instructions" though ?. also if he does win the title then he can"t be as bad as alot of people make out....... or can he !

[Street cry]

did i just hear Dane O'neill described as tactically astute

[Win2Win]

With a 19.2% SR, Spencer is getting it statistically MORE right than EVERY other jockey, so I have no idea why he gets criticism.

Hang on, yes I do......

• At the moment he's one of our top sports hero on the flat - We love to knock 'em down in this country don't we?
• He obviously gets more media coverage than the others, plus being married to Emma gives him a bit of celeb status, so when he does make an error, and ALL jockeys do, he gets noticed more than M Bates getting trapped on the rails in an Amateur event at Wolves, and cantering over the line in 2nd in a gambled on Fav!
• Being a well known jockey, and riding a high number of Favs, he is always carrying a lot of money, but as Merl pointed out earlier, they are overbet, around 70% of them are FALSE Favs, and even God would have a problem getting them over the line in first.
• At 19.2% SR throughout what has been a dreadful season, is by far the best I have seen in years, so that means all the other jockeys, in say the last ten years, must be complete Charlie Chaplin's

The stats clearly speak for themselves, and if someone has difficulty deciphering stats, they need to learn how to interpetate them before placing another bet, or at the very least, keep there mouths shut about one of the countries top sportmen.

[Elbarto]

did i just hear Dane O'neill described as tactically astute

Yes you have, how often though do you hear about him being slated though??

With a 19.2% SR, Spencer is getting it statistically MORE right than EVERY other jockey, so I have no idea why he gets criticism.

Hang on, yes I do......

• At the moment he's one of our top sports hero on the flat - We love to knock 'em down in this country don't we?
• He obviously gets more media coverage than the others, plus being married to Emma gives him a bit of celeb status, so when he does make an error, and ALL jockeys do, he gets noticed more than M Bates getting trapped on the rails in an Amateur event at Wolves, and cantering over the line in 2nd in a gambled on Fav!
• Being a well known jockey, and riding a high number of Favs, he is always carrying a lot of money, but as Merl pointed out earlier, they are overbet, around 70% of them are FALSE Favs, and even God would have a problem getting them over the line in first.
• At 19.2% SR throughout what has been a dreadful season, is by far the best I have seen in years, so that means all the other jockeys, in say the last ten years, must be complete Charlie Chaplin's

The stats clearly speak for themselves, and if someone has difficulty deciphering stats, they need to learn how to interpetate them before placing another bet, or at the very least, keep there mouths shut about one of the countries top sportmen.

Im not having a go at you personally but i think your statements can be answered.
For your list of criticism i have the following answers, some sports stars might be knocked but i havent heard much if any criticism for seb sanders, quite the opposite imo.

I dont disagree with your second quote about him getting more media coverage, but it aint as if Emma Spencer is jumping around on the morning line shouting "im married to jamie, im married to jamie lets talk about him"

Yes quite a number of the faves he is on shouldnt be faves but the same thing happens when a certain little italian is racing. Just look at the 7:45 at Windsor on monday Frankie was aboard a horse making its first appearance on the track against other more experienced horses, yet its still went off the 9/4 fave and finished near the back... go figure.

You aint looked down the stats figures for the current season then cause there are a number of jockeys with similar figures yet they aint being slagged off. Ryan Moore is on 19.1 but i hear no criticism for him Richard Hills is 18.4 and James Millman all be it a lot less rides has a strike rate of 25%
The slagging off of Jamie Spencer IMO will continue until he changes his riding style so he aint showing off by trying to constantly come with late runs. Kieren Fallon never did it, he races according to how the horse likes to be and to give it the best chance of winning, whereas as time has shown Jamie doesnt do this he races to suit himself more often then not

[Win2Win]

For your list of criticism i have the following answers, some sports stars might be knocked but i havent heard much if any criticism for seb sanders, quite the opposite imo.

...and yet the stats say Sanders is making more mistakes per 100 rides than Spencer.....Perspective.

Windsor on monday Frankie was aboard a horse making its first appearance on the track against other more experienced horses, yet its still went off the 9/4 fave and finished near the back... go figure.

The horse bled.

You aint looked down the stats figures for the current season then cause there are a number of jockeys with similar figures yet they aint being slagged off.

Yes I have but we are talking about Spencer who rides a lot of horse, and is a title contender. Richard Hills, critisism ...use the SEARCH :D ...and Millman as you say, does not count as the SR can be fluked due to the number of rides.

Nothing wrong with Jamie's style, it is a winning one, look at the stats, I'm sure you can show him how to do it correctly though :)

[Elbarto]

...and yet the stats say Sanders is making more mistakes per 100 rides than Spencer.....Perspective.


The horse bled.


Yes I have but we are talking about Spencer who rides a lot of horse, and is a title contender. Richard Hills, critisism ...use the SEARCH :D ...and Millman as you say, does not count as the SR can be fluked due to the number of rides.

Nothing wrong with Jamie's style, it is a winning one, look at the stats, I'm sure you can show him how to do it correctly though :)

Sanders may be making more mistakes but is he getting as much flack, no he aint. Thats because he is doing his damndest to get the horse to win, whereas spencer is more focused on looking good.

I didnt know that Al Naadhadth had bled but that explains his bad run, but you do see dettori horses being backed into favouritism when they shouldnt be.
If there is nothing wrong with Jamies style then why is he getting so much flack these days. Answer because hes more interested in coming late and making it look good rather then riding the horse to win.

[Onlyforfun]

The problem with Spencer is the way he rides makes it appear, rightly or wrongly, that he is underachieving. Personally I think he is 1 dimensional, but if you want someone to ride a hold up horse he's your man, otherwise, lay, lay, lay. If he was stable jock for M Johnson I reckon he'd be lucky to have a 1% s/r. (I don't think extreme hold up tactics are very popular with O'Brien either which may well be the source of that rift)

To take a footballing anology, few people credit Gascoigne as the most gifted footballer of his generation, they tend to lament how good he "could have been". And that is even true of guys like Best.

[Win2Win]

Jamie gets more flack becuase to start with, Joe Public do not understand stats, so a few complain, then the media jump on the bandwagon, this is now partly to do with RUK/ATR reading out emails from idiots talking through there pockets having lost 50p.

RUK/ATR if you listen to these channels all day, every day, a hell of a lot of jocks get stick. Murphy got it in the neck last week in at least 2 races, and look at his stats.....also McCoy got it in one race......GOD himself!!!!

If you take all the photo finish races were the horse was beaten less than 1", and ran them all again, say in another time paradox, I bet 50% of the time the result would turn out the opposite of the original. Nothing to do with a bad ride, that's just racing.

Look at Murphy at Perth the other week, forced the horses head down on the line to win by a pixel......did the other jockey give it a bad ride by not doing the same? Why did he not do it, the other jock managed it?

By the way, I can't stand Spencer :)

[Onlyforfun]

Spencer is merely efficient at riding his favoured style. He is not in the same league as a Fallon or Kinane when it comes to getting the best out of any individual horse. Sure, put him on a good horse and he will do as well as anyone, but he doesn't have "class".

[Win2Win]

..but he doesn't have "class".

That'll be because he's all spunked out after a night with Emma

[Elbarto]

Spencer is merely efficient at riding his favoured style. He is not in the same league as a Fallon or Kinane when it comes to getting the best out of any individual horse. Sure, put him on a good horse and he will do as well as anyone, but he doesn't have "class".

Never a truer word said. If Spencer is as good as the stats make him out to be why was he sacked from the plum job of ballydoyle, because he can only ride one way. Fallon or Kinane to name but two are masters of the game and can ride from any position be it leading the way or holding up, spencer cant, all he can do with some efficiency is hold up the horse.

The public dont need to know stats Keith to know when a jockey did a good job or a bad one. When Jamie is holding up a horse that should be up at the front what does that say. To me its says the jockey cares more about making himself look good then winning by exploiting the horses best characteristics. Fallon or Kinane dont ride to make themselves look good, they ride cause its their job and they will do whats best to win. If Jamie altered his style a little and won more people wouldnt be slagging him but giving him the credit he deserves.

Put Spencer up against some proper jockeys and he wouldnt stand a chance. The level of top jockeys in the UK at the moment aint the greatest, Fallon is banned, Kinane is in Ireland, Frankie aint as committed as he was a few years back, Winston is banned, Philip Robinson aint riding as many, Ryan Moore is one of the few very very good jockeys there at the moment but has been hampered by injuries. The standard of jockeys is dropping. Bring in McCoy I say!!! :D:D

[bonnylad]

I think some times trainers/owners book Jamie because they know his style will not suit their horse.The horse will have a easy race,look out of form.The next time out in a better race with different jockey will probably go close.
I remember Lester Piggot wasn't a sure thing on odds on knocking bets.My old man wanted to wring his neck on many occasions.




I asked the Doctor for some viagra eye drops.He said."Don't you want tablets." I said."No,I just want to look hard" He said,"I'll give you the tablets too.They will stop you rolling out of the bed in the night."

[Win2Win]

Sit down, and watch EVERY race for a week. And write down the the name of the jockey who holds horses up. IE. At the back/mid-divison. As this covers at least 85% of all horses you'll have a long list, and Jamie does not come out as No.1 when you work out the ratio of hold-up to rides.

As Bonny points out, he is booked by trainers for his riding skills & style, and has to ride to there orders.

The public dont need to know stats Keith to know when a jockey did a good job or a bad one

And this clearly explains why only 0.7% of people make decent profits from racing, and I thank them for not being about understanfing stats, otherwise they might then start to give me less profits. :D Professional gambling is based on stats and the balance of probability, even value betting is statistical I you can't cleary see how good a jockey is by the stats, then more power to the pro's

[Fadetoblack]

I cut out a headline from the racing post last year.

"Spencer holds up Jockey Club enquiries"

Made me laugh anyway, I wonder if the copywriter knew what he was doing...

[Merlin]

The goosip is that Emma told her girlfriends that Jamie rides her eaxctly the way he rides his horses...

[Elbarto]

Sit down, and watch EVERY race for a week. And write down the the name of the jockey who holds horses up. IE. At the back/mid-divison. As this covers at least 85% of all horses you'll have a long list, and Jamie does not come out as No.1 when you work out the ratio of hold-up to rides.

As Bonny points out, he is booked by trainers for his riding skills & style, and has to ride to there orders.

I wouldnt necessarily agree with this, i think the jockeys who are higher up the ladder are told what the horse likes ie positioning but the final decision is left to the jockeys.

And this clearly explains why only 0.7% of people make decent profits from racing, and I thank them for not being about understanfing stats, otherwise they might then start to give me less profits. :D Professional gambling is based on stats and the balance of probability, even value betting is statistical I you can't cleary see how good a jockey is by the stats, then more power to the pro's

You misunderstood me here what i meant was that although jockeys aint perfect, when theyve obviously made a mistake, eg Frankies ride aboard Authorised last time out, they could have the best strike rate but will still be slagged for that bad ride. If Jamie rode closer to the pace ive no doubt that the Championship would be his at this stage, but with his riding style he aint clear yet and has annoyed punters with his hold up tactics when if he rode closer he would have won easier. Stats are a big factor in racing, but the more important things are the going and the horse itself, its 95% horse 5% jockey but jamie thinks its 95% jockey 5% horse.

As Merlin said before Jamie admitted in an interview that he would rather win by a neck then a few lengths, which to me is disrespectful, McCoy or Fallon wouldnt do this and thats why they are so well respected. They go out there to win only and not show boat by coming home just infront.

Jamie should more cockyness recently when onboard a fave backed in from 9/4 to evens i think, at the 2 pole he was cruising and had a good look around as if to say "lads no need to punish your horses this is my race" he ended up only winning by under a lenght and a half going flat out on the horse. For me he doesnt show enough respect and as a result I think will continue to get stick for his riding syle.

We could sit here and argue till we are blue in the face but thats the wonderful thing about opinions each is entitled to their own. Jamie in my opinion will continue to get stick for his riding style but as you pointed out his strike rate shows how well he is doing this year, but if he changed his riding style i know his strike rate would be even better

[Merlin]

If Harry Wragg was the Head Waiter , then Jamie Boy must be the Dumb Waiter…

[mathare]

If it is 95% horse and 5% jockey where does the going factor in Elbarto? You said it is important so how much is horse, how much is going and how much is jockey?

And if it is only 5% jockey that makes him 19 times less important than the horse so surely how good the jock is becomes almost irrelevant. You're admitting with these percentages that the majority of the ones Jamie Spencer doesn't win on aren't good enough to win anyway, else they'd win regardless of the passenger. So while Mr Spencer adopting your mega riding style may improve his SR a gnat's it's not going to make any real difference is it? He needs better horses not a better riding style as the horse is 19 times more important.

[scoobydoo]

.....but lets talk more about Emma....!! I'd retire if I was Spencer and stay at home all day...:D

[bonnylad]

.....but lets talk more about Emma....!! I'd retire if I was Spencer and stay at home all day...:D

You probably be flogging a dead horse after a couple of years.





How do you know the wife's dead?---sex is the same.--It's just when you notice the laundry pile up.