The Pope goes gay bashing for Xmas

[bigcumba]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7796663.stm

This is what sickens me about the likes of the Pope, and pretty much all other major religious leaders. If this was any other leader of a so-called civilized country he would be lambasted and kicked out of office for what amounts to inciting hatred against a minority group. But no, it's the Pope so he must be right:splapme. Wakey-wakey old man, this is the 21st century. We're a bit more enlightened about these things nowadays, this is not the dark ages! Since when were the small % of people who are gay ever likely to bring about the self-destruction of mankind? What complete and utter bull. And to compare that to the cutting down of the rainforest just beggars belief! How about preaching something useful.... like tolerance!?

[Win2Win]

...and he's the one wearing a skirt.....

[wb]

Why is everyone surprised when the Pope preaches Catholic teaching? I for one am a bit tired of everyone having to be liberal and accepting all the time. It's not the bloody Barney show! I don't see why transexuals for example, need 'rights'. They are just blokes who dress up as women. There's children starving in the world and these muppets are looking for rights? (and no doubt, they are probably getting funded by the government for something or other). Give me a break!

I risk getting stick here, but I've met many gays, and in general, I've found them to be quite intolerant of other people - especially anyone who is religious. They like to think they are open, but they wont let people express religious belief in public which is just as intolerant!

You can't blame the Pope for being a Catholic in fairness.

[mathare]

I don't see why transexuals for example, need 'rights'. They are just blokes

Yup, so they are humans and deserve the same human rights as others.

who dress up as women.

So what? You could argue that it's only really in the 'civilised' world that we have significantly different clothes for men and women. In parts of Africa they wrap themselves in cloths and robes be they man or woman. Are all the men transexuals there too then?

Priests were what looks to me like a dress but that's tolerated in the church. I fail to see the real difference, if I am honest.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a religious flame war, just telling it how I see it.

There's children starving in the world and these muppets are looking for rights?

And why shouldn't they? Are they less human in some way?

I risk getting stick here, but I've met many gays, and in general, I've found them to be quite intolerant of other people - especially anyone who is religious. They like to think they are open, but they wont let people express religious belief in public which is just as intolerant!

I doubt the intolerance is significantly higher in the homosexual community than in the heterosexual community. Some people feel religion is being shoved down their throats, which is why people like Dawkins produced his atheist bus adverts. I think the country as a whole is less overtly religious than it used to be and that suits me. I have my own faith and beliefs but see no reason to scream them from the rooftops. Others do feel such a need but that's up to them. I can tut and walk on by ignoring them at will.

[wb]

I can tut and walk on by ignoring them at will

That's the thing though Mat. You can ignore them. With respect to BigC, a guy I really like, he can't ignore it (as he's decided to start a thread on this).

The Pope, like any leader, needs to use the media to express messages and teaching. Some people wont like it, but that's fine. I don't like what the Muslims have to say, but to be honest, I just ignore their teachings etc.

Regarding transexuals - they are not just wearing the clothes they want. They get a sexual kick out of wearing women's clothes. Now, there's nothing wrong with getting a kick from something and each to their own, but what sort of society have we become if the taxpayer is funding this crap?

[Win2Win]

The majority of folk seem to think that to have faith and/or beliefs you need to be religious, and fit into a nice category, Christian, Muslim, etc, however, you don't, you can have them without being part of any power hungry club. Religion itself is just a means of control.

I like the Beeb at the moment, doing the walk from Nazareth to Jerusalem (I think ) as it was written in the bible with a donkey. They are now on donkey number 4 as the others couldn't handle the exhaustion. ....they really shot themselves in the foot with that one

I for one am a bit tired of everyone having to be liberal and accepting all the time.

Whose the intolerant one now then? :wink

[scoobydoo]

Regarding transexuals - they are not just wearing the clothes they want. They get a sexual kick out of wearing women's clothes. Now, there's nothing wrong with getting a kick from something and each to their own, but what sort of society have we become if the taxpayer is funding this crap?

From Wikipedia;

Transvestism (also called transvestitism) is the practice of cross-dressing, which is wearing the clothing of the opposite sex. Transvestite refers to a person who cross-dresses; however, the word often has additional connotations

Transsexualism is a condition in which a person identifies with a physical sex different from the one with which they were born. A medical diagnosis can be made if a person experiences discomfort as a result of a desire to be a member of the opposite sex,[1] or if a person experiences impaired functioning or distress as a result of that gender identification.[2]

Transsexualism is stigmatized in many parts of the world and has become more widely known in Western cultures in the mid to late 20th century, concurrently with the sexual revolution and the development of sexual reassignment surgeries. It remains controversial, however. Discrimination and negative attitudes towards transsexualism often accompany certain religious beliefs or cultural values. There are other cultures, however, that have not only held a place for transsexuals but even culturally sanction them, such as the two-spirit people in some native American tribes.[3]

[Win2Win]

A lot of people get a kick out of wearing a kilt....burn them all at the stake :D

Woman have been wearing 'mans' clothing for decades, no one says bugger all about that as it is now the 'norm'.

[scoobydoo]

A lot of people get a kick out of wearing a kilt....burn them all at the stake :D

Bet you wouldnt say that to Bigc on New Years Eve! :D

[Win2Win]

Bet you wouldnt say that to Bigc on New Years Eve! :D

He wouldn't hear me anyway, as he'll be lost in pleasure while lubricating my

[bigcumba]

what sort of society have we become if the taxpayer is funding this crap?

Maybe (and what would be wrong with it) an inclusive society that appreciates the wonderful diversity of humanity, a society that realises minorities have just as much right to taxpayers money as anyone else.... as opposed to a society that excludes people on the basis of race, colour, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Funnily enough that smacks of Nazism... but then maybe we shouldn't go there given the grey areas surrounding Benedict's past?

Just remember - only 40 years ago in this country to be caught in the middle of a homosexual act would have resulted in a jail sentence. They've had to fight for years for the rights we get to take for granted - hardly fair is it? Even then they had to be 21 as opposed to 16 for heterosexuals. Why? The usual nonsense spouted is that it was to protect young men from older predators. Which seems to make it ok for older guys to 'predate' on younger girls?

I think the whole idea behind what Benedict has said is offensive to any right thinking person. To suggest that homosexuals are in any way likely to bring about the end of the human race would be farcical if it wasn't so downright nasty. Sadly there are far too many gullible people around this planet of ours who will take this on board as 'gospel' for want of a better term, and act on it accordingly, and no doubt there will be more homphobia on the back of this. I mean where's his proof? Surely to come out with such a far reaching statement you would expect some sort of proof... or is he just peering into Mystic Meg's crystal ball? Whatever, he has seriously pissed off a huge number of people with this. So much for the Christian message of peace and goodwill at this time of year - seems like it depends on who you are.

And Wayne, please don't take this personally - if it had been the Archbishop of Canterbury I'd have had the same opinion.

[Win2Win]

Humbug

[John]

It's a disgrace that someone of such high stature can have such narrow-minded opinions, and it's pretty sick that this is his opinion to be honest with you. Wake up to the 21st Century Mr Pope... it's absurd.

[wb]

Of course I don't take it personally BigC but I'm always slightly amused when -

Shock, Horror: The Pope preaches Catholic teachings!

You've gone all John Lennon 'Imagine' on me Big C!

You and others may disagree with those teachings but in fairness to him, he has a duty to get his message out there. Any other Pope will have to do so too. As do Muslim leaders, political leaders, homosexual groups leaders, etc. They all have messages and look to get their point of view across in the media. Catholic leaders are no different.

You may not like it, but you'll have to put up with it if you want the tolerance for other peoples views expressed above. I'm not sure if you would describe yourself as a liberel (moral wise, not political) but I find that liberals go on about accepting everyone as they are - yet won't reciprocate! "As long as you accept my liberal views of how the world should be, we'll all be happy" I'm sorry, but no we wont. People have differing views and liberal thinkers will have to accept that. Some of us just don't have that 'anything goes' attitude. I won't treat anyone badly, but I don't have to agree with their point of view.

Catholics have to put up with a lot of stuff on TV and everywhere else that would be deemed offence to the faith. But we just have to get on with it and accept it. Muslims less so, as people seem to tiptoe around them more for some reason.

In short, everyone should be allowed to express their views, including religions. You may not like them, but if you banned that, you yourself would be going down the Nazi road.

The Pope after all, is a Catholic right?

(again, nothing personal, just a genera view)

[Win2Win]

The Pope after all, is a Catholic right?

Only because of the society he was brought up in, if he'd been born in Iran, would he now be the Pope?

[wb]

Don't want to argue at Christmas with all the good guys here - but to give an example of how silly our society has become. And this, I believe, is an example of the PC rubbish that happens when people try to silence religious points of view in case our little sensitive nation is, God forbid, offended by something.

In Ireland, a Catholic book store called Veritas had their radio advert banned in case it offended people. Now, I'm no holy joe, but It's Christmas time for God's sake. A Christian bookshop should be allowed to sell stuff!

The offending lines?

"Cake and crackers, Santa and stockings, turkey and tinsel, Mistletoe and mince pies, and presents and puddings.

Christmas: aren't we forgetting something? This Christmas, why not give a gift that means more?

Veritas has a range of different and thoughtful gifts, for children and adults alike. From books and music to candles and artwork, there is something for everyone to enjoy and treasure.

So to give a gift that means more, drop into your local Veritas shop or log on to www.veritas.ie"

How the hell could anyone be offended by that?

There are tonnes of ads on right now about Christmas that Christians could find offensive. For example, there is one store in Dublin selling 'Christmas' adult toys. I'm not sure that adult toys have anything to do with this Christian festival, but hey, they get away with it. Yet, when an ad for something religious comes up, it's banned. It's an absolute joke and if we don't let the Pope or other leaders express themselves, we've gone down a very dangerous road.

I appreciate that it's different in the United Kingdom, but the latest census in Ireland saw 90% of people tick Catholicism as the closest religion (if any) that they associate their views with. Not all of those people would be mass goers or strong followers, but still, nine out of ten people felt comfortable associating themselves with the Catholic church. Therefore, those people should be allowed to hear the Pope's messages, even if the minority don't agree. (I realise of course, that Catholics are not a majority in the UK, but still).

So why the hell do we put up with this censorship rubbish? Everyone is entitled to their view, but if we continue down this road of banning people from expressing themselves in case we offend someone, we've finally lost the plot.

On another note, Happy Christmas! Big C, any idea if McGeady will get to play in the old firm? Is his number up at Parkhead? Haven't been to Glasgow in some time so am interested to see what the Scottish view is on the whole affair. Irish people are siding with him in the main, probably because he plays for us.

[Bill]

Nowdays there are two very different types of Christmas. The commercial xmas and the religious xmas. The religious xmas has all but disappeared up it's own backside and the commercial xmas has become a time of overspending and over indulging with no thought of the religious content. I suppose any Pope is bound to get on his high horse over anything that goes against the beliefs as portrayed in the Bible. As for gays, it is a fact that the "gay" community in the human race have always been with us from time immemorial, perhaps even more of a percentage than the present day. Since the time of factually recorded history homosexuality has been kept in the closet and only recently became so open. Although I agree with bigC's sentiments I also feel that, in today's society the majority of us are better educated and more tolerant towards our fellow human beings and so are therefore quite capable of listening to the views of our so-called leaders and of making our own minds up on what they are saying.
In other words, whatever they say may be of importance or may not and if not, to the discerning man, it goes in one ear and out the other.
I will take this opportunity to, being a discerning person myself and knowing that I am more of the commercial xmas type of person and will probably be out of it for the next couple of days, wish you all a Very Merry Christmas.

[Win2Win]

How the hell could anyone be offended by that?

I don't like the way the apostrophe hangs!

The commercial xmas and the religious xmas...

I prefer the original Pagan Xmas myself that was hijacked by the church :)

[bigcumba]

Wayne, I'd agree that the ban on that advert is ridiculous as well - as an educated, possibly fairly liberal minded individual, I think that shop has every right to be allowed to advertise in that way. No one could or should be offended by it, so yes it is PC gone mad without a doubt.

It's fair enough for the leader of the Catholic, or any other church to be allowed to preach the teachings of their own faith, to get their message across, but when that leader's message points the finger at a certain large minority section of the human race, and suggests the sort of thing he suggested then there has to be an outcry against it. If anyone in a position of power came out with that in this country I'd rightly expect to see them in trouble under current UK law, as what he said is (in my opinion) a sort of sexual apartheid, and definitely discriminatory. I know I'm not going to get you to agree with me on this.... but he has overstepped the mark this time.

As for the Old Firm game, I'm not too sure what's happening up there with McGeady either.... I'm a bit out of touch with it all as well. It's a big big game for both sides.... Celtic winning would be a huge psychological boost to their chances of winning the league. Rangers desperately need to claw back the points to get to almost level pegging. Should be another great game.

Anyway... happy Christmas to you as well mate! :)

[Win2Win]

I Xmas.......I do the old Devil worship thingy.....while the wife does the voodoo stuff dancing naked in the garden around the chicken feet......oh happy days.

[Bill]

I Xmas.......I do the old Devil worship thingy.....while the wife does the voodoo stuff dancing naked in the garden around the chicken feet......oh happy days.

I know. She's really good at it.:D

[Win2Win]

I know. She's really good at it.:D

[tophatter]

In a free society then I think the Pope can say what he likes but the way he said it just made him look a tad foolish and probably diminished his argument rather then strengthened it. That aint a bad thing in my opinion.

[Win2Win]

He did mention that child abuse should be made a thing of the past......disbanding the Catholic church would be a good start

[counterfeit]

Nobody seems to have thought that gay people can also be religious. My mother is gay and has a great belief in God and Christianity. Why is it assumed that all Gay people bring down a curse on mankind. 50% of gay people are women who are extremely unlikely to spread disease into the mainstream population.

As for the Pope, well there's 2 things I have to say.

Firstly, he is a Catholic and therefore entitled to preach Catholic beliefs but ... as those beliefs are now 1200 years old, isn't about time they reflected modern society not the Dark Ages of Continental Europe.

Secondly, all religion is mind control and as the most powerful religious leader in the world he definitely chose his target on purpose. Let's be honest here and say that if anything is likely to bring destruction to mankind it is religious fundementalists but he can't have a go at other religions without starting more hatred and intolerance so he picked on ... slightly camp men who carry handbags!!!

Personally, I think all religion is absolute so good luck to everyone who believes in it so strongly that they listen to what a Nazi Pensioner in a dress says.

[Win2Win]

My mother is gay......

That makes you......JESUS!!!