Oh for more leaders like this man.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Oh, come on - if you look for long enough through the rubble in Haiti, I dare say you would find one or two pieces of girder that looked like they could have been cut. Photograph them and put them on the internet and start blaming the Americans for secretly wanting to get rid of the poorest country for whatever your fevered imagination can come up with. Stop baulking trollocks.

How could the US ever afford to come up with such an intricate plot to destroy the twin towers when they have to pay so much to Hollywood to keep up the pretence of the moon landings?

[Win2Win]

I don't recall the BBC trying to explain away pics like this & there are a lot more of them:

...and you don't understand how steel fractures under stress. That is a clean break what you would expect from a sudden force. :splapme ... and yes I worked in engineering with steel for years, and still have my fingers in the pie.

[mick56]

Stop baulking trollocks.

A bit off topic i no but really like your above expression,though fear from time to time will on reflection have to apply it to myself !.

[mathare]

So what was Charlie Sheen up to around Xmas last year? If he was trying to impale himself on the Israeli Embassy perimeter fence such as myself, fair play to him!

Shame you missed

[scoobydoo]

Seems to me though that the IBC (that's the Israeli Broadcasting Co - as it is known as in some circles) is already doing that by putting out dud conspiracy file documentaries that do little more than try to discredit the people that are doing the work that the license payer is paying them for: ie. real investigative journalism.

The thing is Godspot, there are plenty on the right who think the BBC are pro- Palestine and anti-Israel...so if you think about it they are probably being quite balanced. Which is unlike some of your observations on the world which seem far from balanced, or even rational.

[Win2Win]

If you want unbalanced TV watch Fox News, the best balanced around is French 24 and Al Jazeera.

[wb]

If you want unbalanced TV watch Fox News, the best balanced around is French 24 and Al Jazeera.

It's a real eye opener to watch Al Jazeera. I generally try to take in two news stations now as the differences in reporting is incredible.

Al Jazeera can be biased for sure but not half as bad as Sky etc. It's worth watching to get the other side of the story.

[scoobydoo]

If you want unbalanced TV watch Fox News, the best balanced around is French 24 and Al Jazeera.

Didn't Murdoch start Fox News as he thought ABC/CBS were left-leaning organisations? The station is just laughable, be interesting to see the criticism Obama has gotten on there this last year as compared to Bush in his first year....balanced my :D

[Godspot]

The thing is Godspot, there are plenty on the right who think the BBC are pro- Palestine and anti-Israel...so if you think about it they are probably being quite balanced. Which is unlike some of your observations on the world which seem far from balanced, or even rational.

Oh I've been thinking about it alright... I been thinking about if for nearly three years & I can reel off countless examples & a fair bit of personal experience to draw on & only last week I was asked to complain again about a little sketch on Newsnight - Gaza 1 year on & I'll dig that up in a minute but

this time last year we had the Gaza DEC Appeal fiasco which the BBC refused to air because they said it would risk their impartiality, I agree with Tony Benn though who got into the Beeb to read out the details & like he said of the staff, 'you all agree with me, that it should be shown (& later, a lot of the BBC staff did a gig to raise money for the appeal as they felt so bad about their employer refusing), let me tell you, people will die because of the BBC which had capitulated to Israeli pressure.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E21MdXe3BOQ

Then of course we all found out that the Director General was pals with Ariel Sharon (responsible for another massacre, that of Sabre & Shatilla, 1982, I think) & it became glaringly obvious.

& here's a fine example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/8470100.stm

The only mention of a war crime is that committed by Hamas,

nothing about Israel bombing a tunnel, killing four Palestinians on the night of Obama's election that ended a 6 month ceasefire...

(nothing about Tony Blair in December calling for a new strategy on Gaza, sorry, bit off topic, but IMHO, he was in on this as well in his capacity as a failed ME peace envoy)

nothing about Israel's indiscriminate use of white phosphorus weaponry in one of the most densely populated (& 1/2 of them under 18) areas on the planet.

There is no balance there.

I admit, I am biased but I always thought ethnic cleansing was wrong & it makes me a bit sick that my excuse for a government is a party to it.

[Godspot]

...and you don't understand how steel fractures under stress. That is a clean break what you would expect from a sudden force. :splapme ... and yes I worked in engineering with steel for years, and still have my fingers in the pie.

You'll have heard of the Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth then? There's quite a lot of them....

But the only sudden force - was explosives (it's been proven). Wake Up!

[TheOldhamWhisper]

You'll have heard of the Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth then? There's quite a lot of them....

But the only sudden force - was explosives (it's been proven). Wake Up!

I've found equally convincing arguments here.

[mathare]

You'll have heard of the Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth then? There's quite a lot of them....

I've got quite a lot of imaginary friends and they told me that pixie farts were responsible for the demolition of the second tower. The first tower was apparently a hallucination; it was never actually there so couldn't have fallen down. I believe them, after all, there are quite a lot of them...

[barrelmaniac]

There was one of the architects on the news while the twin towers were burning, he said at the time that they would collapse when the intense heat from the fire melted the srtong core of the buildings, when buildings of this size collapse it is usually sudden and catestrophic due to the huge forces and weight involved.

[scoobydoo]

I've got quite a lot of imaginary friends and they told me that pixie farts were responsible for the demolition of the second tower.

You really shouldn't wind him up like this...he will be googling 'pixie fart cover ups' tonight for hours

[scoobydoo]

But the only sudden force - was explosives (it's been proven). Wake Up!

Please put up the website, would love to read it, as long as it isn't written by one of your biased mates Godspot :D

[Godspot]

I've found equally convincing arguments here.

Maybe this holds more water:

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe By Reprehensor 04 Apr 2009 From Dr. Steven Jones: Formally published in a peer-reviewed Chemical Physics journal, today: "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe" by Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley and Bradley R. Larsen. The paper ends with this sentence: "Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material." In short, the paper explodes the official story that "no evidence" exists for explosive/pyrotechnic materials in the WTC buildings.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761

[bigcumba]

In short, the paper explodes

So it was a copy of the National Enquirer that went boom?

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Maybe this holds more water:

It might have done if:

1. The site wasn't just a personal blog.
2. The article itself wasn't so fundamentally flawed:

Abstract
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Please feel free to watch ANY footage of the collapse of EITHER tower and then come back and explain:

1. How/Why anyone would even attempt to enter an area where a building has just collapsed and where there is thick, choking dust?

2. Why anyone who might be entering under such circumstances would do so in order to conveniently find material which is essentially composed of iron oxide (rust) and suddenly decide that this material is in fact a high explosive?

3. If you want a conspiracy theory, how about some Manhattan resident enters the scene and sprinkles this explosive material to make it look like the towers had been brought down by the US government?

[scoobydoo]

Godspot, can you just clarify your view on what you think happened with 9/11? Is it your view that the American government had intelligence that the planes were about to attack The Twin Towers/The Pentagon, and so to make sure it caused even more devastation on the given day, they over the days/weeks/months beforehand, planted explosives in The Twin Towers/Pentagon?

[mathare]

While we're on the subject, can we call it 11/9 too please as I'm not aware of anyhing significant happening on 9th November :wink

[wb]

While we're on the subject, can we call it 11/9 too please as I'm not aware of anyhing significant happening on 9th November :wink

[Godspot]

Please put up the website, would love to read it, as long as it isn't written by one of your biased mates Godspot :D

By all means - avail yourself to the works of this chap:

Pretty unbiased - he hardly mentions Israel at all!

Davis Ray Griffin
http://davidraygriffin.com/?s

Author and professor Griffin (9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press) knows his work is referred to by officials and the media as conspiracy theory, and he has a rebuttal: “the official theory is itself a conspiracy theory.” In this companion volume to 2004’s The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11, Griffin provides corrections, raises new issues and discusses “the two most important official reports about 9/11,” the 9/11 Commission Report and the National Institute of Standards and Technology report on the Twin Towers, both “prepared by people highly responsive to the wishes of the White House” and riddled with “omission and distortion from beginning to end.” Griffin addresses many points in exhaustive detail, from the physical impossibility of the official explanation of the towers’ collapse to the Commission’s failure to scrutinize the administration to the NIST’s contradiction of its own scientists to the scads of eyewitness and scientific testimony in direct opposition to official claims. Citing hundreds, if not thousands, of sources, Griffin’s detailed analysis is far from reactionary or delusional, building a case that, though not conclusive, raises enough valid and disturbing questions to make his call for a new investigation more convincing than ever. (Oct.)

http://www.publishersweekly.com/arti...dustryid=47159

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Erm - it's another blog - from someone who at least has the sense to charge the gullible $20 for his book!

Copying and pasting from a review doesn't offer any sort of proof (or even an argument, if it isn't your own).

You given any thought to my 3 questions?

1. How/Why anyone would even attempt to enter an area where a building has just collapsed and where there is thick, choking dust?

2. Why anyone who might be entering under such circumstances would do so in order to conveniently find material which is essentially composed of iron oxide (rust) and suddenly decide that this material is in fact a high explosive?

3. If you want a conspiracy theory, how about some Manhattan resident enters the scene and sprinkles this explosive material to make it look like the towers had been brought down by the US government?

[Godspot]

You given any thought to my 3 questions?

As it happens, I was just about to post this in response:

http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...1SciMethod.pdf Answers your questions most emphatically.

& regards NO.3: who would have access to such material?

But why the hell should I? No-one has answered any of Charlie Sheen's questions.

How on earth anyone can watch this http://www.ae911truth.org/ (short video repeats on the top right of the screen) collapse of Building 7 & believe the official version of events is beyond me.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Well, I read the first 10 pages of this 28 page document and all I can find is a conspiracy theorist quoting other conspiracy theory sites!

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that someone waited for the towers to collapse and entered the rubble and thick choking dust 10 minutes later to collect samples!

At least the article does go far enough to accept the fact that they were real planes that hit the towers!

And of course, there is just one more question that upto now doesn't seem to have been answered anywhere - WHY? What has the US government go to gain by allowing the highjacking of the planes in the first place (based on the fact that this would have to be pre-meditated to allow any 'assisted' destruction of the towers) and also, why they bothered with the other attacks on the Pentagon? And if these were not terrorists (as suggested in the article), how was one plane brought down by the passengers fighting back?

[bigcumba]

All we need now is for David Icke to join the forum

[Godspot]

Well, I read the first 10 pages of this 28 page document and all I can find is a conspiracy theorist quoting other conspiracy theory sites!

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that someone waited for the towers to collapse and entered the rubble and thick choking dust 10 minutes later to collect samples!

At least the article does go far enough to accept the fact that they were real planes that hit the towers!

And of course, there is just one more question that upto now doesn't seem to have been answered anywhere - WHY? What has the US government go to gain by allowing the highjacking of the planes in the first place (based on the fact that this would have to be pre-meditated to allow any 'assisted' destruction of the towers) and also, why they bothered with the other attacks on the Pentagon? And if these were not terrorists (as suggested in the article), how was one plane brought down by the passengers fighting back?

I may when I feel like it - get round to answering Scooby's last question but as far as this thread is concerned - It's called:

'Oh for leaders Like this Man' or smth to which I replied:

Let's face it, there aren't any real leaders nowadays - they're all in somebody's pocket - at least Charlie Sheen has got the right idea in questioning 911....

Since then I hear former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney reckons her country has been hijacked & that we the people haven't been told the truth about that day - I'll second that!

& while people like Blair & Oboma & Brown keep putting forward 911 as the reason for our troops being & dying in such places as Afghanistan, I feel we have every right to question while there are no answers.

[vegyjones]

You have answers - you just don't like them , or agree with them, which is perfectly your right!

[Godspot]

Well, I read the first 10 pages of this 28 page document and all I can find is a conspiracy theorist quoting other conspiracy theory sites!

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that someone waited for the towers to collapse and entered the rubble and thick choking dust 10 minutes later to collect samples!

At least the article does go far enough to accept the fact that they were real planes that hit the towers!

And of course, there is just one more question that upto now doesn't seem to have been answered anywhere - WHY? What has the US government go to gain by allowing the highjacking of the planes in the first place (based on the fact that this would have to be pre-meditated to allow any 'assisted' destruction of the towers) and also, why they bothered with the other attacks on the Pentagon? And if these were not terrorists (as suggested in the article), how was one plane brought down by the passengers fighting back?

Sorry, should have said, Page 22 (just after he's described an explosive that cuts through steel like a knife through butter - which pretty much explains the picture [page 1 of this thread] that the BBC Doc wouldn't touch) & he introduces Janette, who returned to her flat a week after the event to find the windows blown out & the place caked in WTC dust some of which she kept & gave to the author when she saw him on a documentary or something.

Er' the article may accept they were real planes but there are theories now which are suggesting 'remote control' was used. When you think of these Drones they have now, that isn't too unbelievable... These theories I think are also suggesting that the control room for this 'remote control' was the part of & hence why, the Pentagon was hit too...

But like you say, 'What has the US to gain?'

You never heard of PNAC? Project for a New American Century (suggesting that 'A New Pearl Harbour' would be handy!)

Remember the 'lame-duck' president, sat around reading 'My Pet Goat' to primary school kids - I wonder how many times he did that during his tenure but it is quite readily accepted now that plans for the removal of Saddam were drawn up long before 2003 & didn't Haliburton (one of Dick Cheney's projects) have this pipeline running through Afghanistan that needed looking after?

All that was needed - permission!

[TheOldhamWhisper]

You never heard of PNAC? Project for a New American Century (suggesting that 'A New Pearl Harbour' would be handy!)

No - can't say that I have (but there's probably more than one massively influencial organisation in the US that hasn't established a worldwide followig yet!)

I have heard of alien abduction - and it's probably an immense co-incidence that the first reported cases happened just after the War of the Worlds broadcast...