So What?

[hayzee]

I'm sure there would not be many that would agree I am not a cynic.
This applies to forum life and reality.
I grew up in the east end,but realised many years ago that chancers,con men/women,can emanate from all walks of life and all parts of the country.
Crafty cockneys,yes, of course,but I suppose nobody has ever heard of a crafty toff,or crafty yorkie.
I've done a varied and interesting amount of things to earn a few bob,tried not to cross that very thin line tooooo often,I like to sleep nights,but getting to the time of life when it would be easier to type a little on a computer than be out there,wheeling dealing and mixing it.
Now my old man taught me many things,but the best lesson,apart from not following the second fav at the stow on retreival was not to trust anyone.
I've spent a fair time researching,following and modifying systems (ok don't take the piss!)but get all enthusiastic until they turn a funny shape,where's the 5/4 now?
Anyhow,I'm not a greedy person,don't mind putting in 3/4 hours a day and laying out a ton a day,so can anyone out there,with all the knowledge,info,etc,etc,etc,let me know where I can earn a ton a week with these stakes?your reward,half,stakes increased according to results.
I don't care if the info is from RSB,VDW,BHS,DVD,or astrology.
There are two services I am tempted with,W2W being one,but who can say with all honesty that you are sure to not only make money but not lose the ******* lot? at the moment I'd rather trust my own judgement,if it all goes a funny shape I can get out quick and it's cost me zilch.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

W2W only cost 67p a day for the first month.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

There are NO guarantees in this game, but I think most (if not all) members will agree that almost every month, they make enough from the information provided to at least cover the cost of their membership.

Nothing is easy though and to make the most of the membership requires you to do a little work in reading the advice provided on staking and how to profit from the systems.

Many of the members are long-term and have been with W2W for over a year - that in itself should go a long way to convince you that the site must be providing some good information.

There's no 'quick-fix' - there's no guarantee that you won't lose the bank - but there is enough information to teach you to become a more successful player.

[tophatter]

My input into this is simply that you are paying for the education and the fact the system work is done for you by win2win. People make the mistake when joining in thinking that if they dont make back there membership each month then they are down. You need to be a member for a year to see the full scheme of things - Most normal punters throw that away and more over the course of a year on mug bets anyhow.

It is a bit like joining a golf club, you pay your fee and then can use the facility as much or little as you want. Also with it being mothly you can quit at anytime if it is not for you. And of course if you don't join the members section, there is a good amount of free info on the site and forum - probably more than some other websites actually give you and charge you for.

[hayzee]

I have 3/4 hours a day that I can call my own and the net costs me nothing,so getting a ton a week profit,even over 7 days,would deal with my essentials,(I get cheap baccy and booze),I love cheese and onion toasties with soup,so my other income could be devoted to more important things.....
If I'm splitting the income with a.n.other,I don't want to do the selections also.
The way I look at it,is if one is that clever why aren't you rich,if you are why the **** are you almost giving your services to others?I'm ****** if I would,if I found the holy grail I'd use it and leave it to the family,**** everyone else.
As W2W once said,and I don't quote,if you have a system where you are getting a profit,don't worry about a staking system,just lump on.
I not looking for something for nothing,everything has its price,just trying to find something out there that is probably not available.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

So I make a lot of money, it took a lot of work to get there. Then I just stop because I have loads of money and do what??? My life is horse racing, making money is just a bonus. If I wasn't doing this my life is over, I have no interest in doing anything else.

I run this site to help others, the same as my Filipino, poker, and other sites, either free or at cost price.

[tophatter]

it isnt the holy grail hayzee it is a lot of hard work mentally. Basically on the pro losers i have probably layed, i don't know, 15,000 horses or so to get to the point I am currently at. That is over 2 years of gambling, to turn £200 into nearly 10 grand.

I also try to help new people because I enjoy the buzz seeing them make a go of it when I have gave them a bit of advice. Some days I actually worry more about how some people are getting on rather than worry about my own bank, because I am experienced enough to know my bank will look after itself.

I am enjoying it immensley because I have been told all my life that gambling is a mugs game and that you can not make money from it. It is a challenge to prove myself the exception to that rule and helping other people is a form of sticking two fingers up at the people who say it is impossible to make it pay. Im only following the systems, if i was the creator and maintainer of the systems as well as running a thriving website, I can not imagine how much of a buzz that would give me - it must be amazing. That is why I can understand 100% what Keith means when he says it is his life - most people earn their money doing a job that either earns money by doing other people down, or is totally unrewarding. Keith earns the money from the gambling and gets the rewarding side of it by running a top website and helping people - I would give the world to be in his shoes.

[hayzee]

Thanks W2W,TH,
trust me this is not personal,
I appreciate all the work and commitment,period.
I have only known four pro gamblers,(personally)one,as a lad who was a mates dad that gave up 'proper' work and made a living picking horses,his only pisser was that he couldn't pick the winning team at any footy match,with only the two to choose from.
Two blokes who gave up 'work' and bet maybe two close price horses a week and a.n.other. who is a genuine pro.
This guy has been there and back,now owns or part owns horses,to keep an interest and get the perks! has retired well wealthy,but still as tight as a ducks ****.
Arthritis is a weird thing,the more you can't do a **** about it,like a lot of shitty health probs being mostly hereditary,the more cures crop up.
With horse racing,the more those winners seem just around the corner,if only,what if,the more services promise the grail and the more people arguing the point prior to the race,sound familiar.
All I'm asking is this,with all the knowledge on here or anywhere else on the net,if everyone is so clever,why can't they turn my £700 a week into £800,too much to ask,you bet.
Five bets of £20 or one of £100 a day,I don't give a ****,promises,promises,promises,the yard had a cough they didn't know about,the jockey farted,the going was a tad too soft,the pace was too slow,ad infinitum.
Am I asking too much,I don't think so,work it out for yourself,if there was a site that could promise to turn £700 a week into £800 you wouldn't be able to access it for people signing up,me for one.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

First of all you need to understand the maths of pro betting, we teach you that, but at the moment you don't seem to know how it ticks in the background, and without the maths/stats knowledge their is not much chance of making money.

I can only give the advice, and the ammunition to use to profit, it is up to the individual what they do with it.

Your also looking at to short a time scale, your apprenticeship would last at least 3 months.

[hayzee]

Thanks W2W,
I've served my apprenticeship,sorry if I sound naive.realise that like all investments there are ups and downs,strange though that excuses are always after the money down,at least you're honest and don't promise anything.
hayzee.

[e55exboi]

And will u put spaces after your commas, does my eyes in reading your posts. And wots with all this a.n.other lark?!?!

[tophatter]

No one can promise to turn £700 into £800 per week mate, because it is too short a timescale and there is not enough selections to balance out the strike rates etc. I have seen people start the pro-losers with banks of £1000 and bottle it because they are trying to run before they know the score. I reckon You could turn £700 into £50,000 in three years from keiths work which is actually three times better than what you are wanting but the first six months might see only £250 profit.

You can not due to the nature of system gambling actually take an income until your bank is big enough to cream it off the top. That is because you have to ride out bad periods and if you are withdrawing profits then you are loweing your tolerance to bad runs. That is the simple truth, no B.S. no hard sell. If you just want beer money then maybe a year needs spending to build up a bank. If you want a £100 a week maybe two years - I think I could withdraw £100 a week now if i chose. Three years and you might be able to withdraw a living wage.

Anyone who is seeling their tips or systems as anything else is almost doomed to failure, because all systems take hits and if you havent stored prevous profits as rainy day money then you will be sunk

[e55exboi]

Are you saying you spend £700 a week on gambling?! Er sounds like your job pays enough to not bother

[hayzee]

E55ex,
don't know whether your talking to me??? the fred is getting a bit convoluted.
No of course I don't use £700 a week gambling,but I'd be prepared to if it meant earning a oner doing it,just proving the point what a load of *******s this horse tipping lark is.
I'm basically a tenner a throw,more if it's worth it,
The person who said don't gamble with money you can't afford to lose was a ****,who can afford to lose any money,even if you're worth loads a money.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

Quiet a lot can afford to lose the betting money, they treat it as payment for entertainment.

[e55exboi]

BLimey your a one! You been on here longer than i have you should know wots wot. Have u not had a day on the members page and looked at the 10 year results? If your willing to spend £700 a week you must have it in the first place. If its money you would usually need but hope you can make a guaranteed profit each week then it wont work. Youd lose £500 one week but make £2000 the next. Gotta start with a bank, simple as that

[hayzee]

E55ex,
I haven't spent a moment on the members page,my view is those that's paid should be those that's lookin.
There would be those that would say this is sooooooo obvious.
Thanks for the tip about starting with a bank,hadn't sussed that one,who do suggest barclays natwest or the ******* co-op.

[e55exboi]

So pay for the members page then u can look cant you Sounds like £700 is your starting bank then, so get betting.

[ScotsDave]

Hayzee, I'll chuck my tuppence in here as maybe hearing from someone who isn't a regular poster may mean something.

I started on here properly as a member about May last year and went through a long learning curve. That said, I now have two accounts - my Betfair account started with £200 and now stands just over £700 (pro lays) and my Betdaq started with £30 and now stands at £400 (okay started the JTS on a good day and use it for my own lays but is fairly representative as to what is possible).

Now that to me is a tremendous return for someone who had the occasional win on fixed odds football and a bet on the national every year.

Anyhoo, the point I'm trying to make is that what I have learnt here has made that happen. I am currently paper testing two systems of my own that barely break even to level stakes, but applying Keith's ideas on staking and throwing Mathare's thought's into the mix have converted them to possible winners.

Couple that with help from the likes of TH on the Pro Losers, and you should see why I have come so far in such a short time.

All the stuff about short-term-ism is absolutely true - you will never find what you've asked for, but with a little dedication and a following of the rules, i will soon easily be making £100 a week - and more importantly I'll know how and why, which is the important reason for me. Plenty of people have been burned before betting blindly on tips given out by web tipsters who guarantee a certain return. That doesn't happen here (even though the returns usually happen), but the amount of info available from numerous people who know the game is incredible.

Anyway, wish you luck whatever you do, but I would guess you would reach your target and more if you join this gaff and put some hours in - I know of no other site (and I've looked!) that could even come close to that.

All the best

Dave

[e55exboi]

Only £500 since May? Pro losers should have made you more should it not?

[ScotsDave]

Only £500 since May? Pro losers should have made you more should it not?

Yeah, the 20% rule would see me at £856 if I'd started at beginning of May (which I didn't), stuck to the rules (which I didn't) and not missed numerous days due to working away (and we all know which days we miss )

[Workshy]

To be frank (for the 3rd time today!), I dont know why any of you are replying to someone so unwelcoming to the replies they're getting. Hayzee, if you're such a sceptical sarcastic 'person', go elsewhere, nobodies out to convince you.

[ScotsDave]

To be frank (for the 3rd time today!), I dont know why any of you are replying to someone so unwelcoming to the replies they're getting. Hayzee, if you're such a sceptical sarcastic 'person', go elsewhere, nobodies out to convince you.

Maybe you're right Workshy - but just in from pub and skimmed previous posts due to lager stagger (of the brain )

[hayzee]

Thanks everyone,
Scots,E55ex,even Workshy.
As I said some time ago,nothing personal,I'm here,on a forum provided by a guy who will probably forget more than I have ever learned,re horserace betting anyway.
I'm not trying to cut corners,but considering all the available knowledge,still strange that instead of saying,I'm pro,I'm not telling you how I got here,but here are the horses,I'm sure you are not basically concerned whether the horse is sired by,is trained by,is ridden by,has been beaten by/has beaten,in such and such time under such and such conditions at these tracks,drawn/priced/placed,etc;etc;etc;but I'll just give you the horses to do,that'll do most of us.
We don't want to know that we've come in on a downturn period,things will buck up soon,while we all want to fathom out how to pick winners,basically most of us don't give a ****,as long as there are more winners than losers at a price to make it profitable.
Too much to ask,I'll leave that to you,to argue about,contemplate,decide upon.
And workshy,strange how those that are real pro's,try and detach themselves from,or have an intrinsic quality to do so,re the outcome of an individual race,it's all part of the big picture.
I appreciate this,but never the less,when you try and pin down many services and ask them to cut the other stuff,just give me the horses,it's a bit like years ago when the 7 stone weakling(not a jock,they're well tough)wrote to Charles Atlas and said he had completed the course,please send the muscles.
If you can't deal with my posts workshy,don't read em or get the boss to cut the access,that is if he can do it without your nose stuck up his ****.

[tophatter]

Keith basically does what you ask hayzee. We get the horses from his systems and then it is up to us what we do with them. I prefer not knowing the rules to the systems as I don't question them, i just do them. Many a time I have layed a horse that I think will win, or backed a horse I think will lose, because it is a system and systems dont think they just do.

Systems take the debate and hassle out of betting. I know the strike rate, I know the staking system and I know the score. There is not a lot more you can really ask for

[Workshy]

Thanks everyone,
Scots,E55ex,even Workshy.
As I said some time ago,nothing personal,I'm here,on a forum provided by a guy who will probably forget more than I have ever learned,re horserace betting anyway.
I'm not trying to cut corners,but considering all the available knowledge,still strange that instead of saying,I'm pro,I'm not telling you how I got here,but here are the horses,I'm sure you are not basically concerned whether the horse is sired by,is trained by,is ridden by,has been beaten by/has beaten,in such and such time under such and such conditions at these tracks,drawn/priced/placed,etc;etc;etc;but I'll just give you the horses to do,that'll do most of us.
We don't want to know that we've come in on a downturn period,things will buck up soon,while we all want to fathom out how to pick winners,basically most of us don't give a ****,as long as there are more winners than losers at a price to make it profitable.
Too much to ask,I'll leave that to you,to argue about,contemplate,decide upon.
And workshy,strange how those that are real pro's,try and detach themselves from,or have an intrinsic quality to do so,re the outcome of an individual race,it's all part of the big picture.
I appreciate this,but never the less,when you try and pin down many services and ask them to cut the other stuff,just give me the horses,it's a bit like years ago when the 7 stone weakling(not a jock,they're well tough)wrote to Charles Atlas and said he had completed the course,please send the muscles.
If you can't deal with my posts workshy,don't read em or get the boss to cut the access,that is if he can do it without your nose stuck up his ****.

I can deal with every post on here, its the internet afterall

Someone trying to seek attention through being a disagreeable, argumentative , wasnt long ago I read a post from you saying you could make money from betting without others assistance. Maybe you should go back to your porno site, atleast the perks will give you something to do instead of coming on here being a twirp. Better still, sign up, its cheap for your first month, a few dildo sales should cover it, then you can make your own decision sir without wasting everybodies time.

Get the boss to cut access? Arent we all our own bosses when it comes to betting :)

Best regards, Workshy xxx

[vegyjones]

Hayzee mate,

There has been much written publications on horse racing.
Much claim to solve all your questions, but don't.

Keith's bets, although he does his own method bets, gives
out system bets to people.

A book I won as a prize on here several months back was by Nick Mordin. I thought that it was going to a revelation and open my eyes. It did, but the message was, you can bet, and systems are the best ways of making money. However, systems don't always remain profitable (as others find similar/ the same system and the prices become devalued). Basically there has been lots of research but trends change and so no system can be deemed eternally profitable. The answer is to look and search out systems and trends that are current and will provide you with profit. But you have to keep reseraching trends to find new systems when your current one stops making money.

With win2win, Keith does all that hard work for you! All you have to do is spend 5 minutes (a little longer if you do the pro-lays) putting your bets on in the afternoon. With discipline and a sensible approach, you can't fail not to make money. And like Tophatter says, if you withdraw cash from a betting bank, you are reducing the potential profit! (That brings about a further topic about when should you withdraw and what amount of potential profit you will be losing)

That's how I see it anyway... :D

[hayzee]

Thanks TH,
I understand and appreciate.
Workshy,
That was off topic and a genuine inquiry.
I'm not bothered how people spend their money or spare time,if they want to jerk off while I don't have to look but get a few shillings a minute for a reasonable investment,so be it,I'm sure the dildo would be more interesting to you,I'll send you a catalogue,usual e-mail is it? maybe not,there are always those that would prefer to shoot up than jerk off.

[vegyjones]

Just realised TH posted what I said,
just a lot more succinct...
Sorry!

[tophatter]

[QUOTE=hayzee]if they want to jerk off while I don't have to look but get a few shillings a minute for a reasonable investmentQUOTE]

Ive heard the phrase of spending a penny for going for a , but has Hayzee nnow come up with a new one of spending a shilling for the old :D