playing live

[silax]

well last night i played in my first ever live poker tourny on a proper table with real people sitting there.
was an interesting evening.
held in a big barn in the middle of nowhere scary stuff indeed it was just like in the movies big iron sliding doors big opens the doors and go inside right to the back of barn and round the corner out of sight of the door.
now at this point my is twitching a bit and i see the table and i meet the other players 11 of us so i shake hands with a firm grip hi my names "ed people call me big ed" i think i had the advantage now in the mental stakes.
anyway rules are explained to me and i'm ok with that and time to put my cash on the table and get my chips ao i handed over my €20 and got €8 change.
and ooddles of chips strange amount of cash but hey it gets explained €10 is the stake and €2 gets me my nights drinking (they odvously haven't been drinking with me before) €2 euro's for a nights booze the cards boys.
anyway game starts and i'm playing very tight just trying to suss out the other players. finally i think i better play something so i do its an ok hand and the guy to my left goes with me can't remember the hand but he beats me with not a lot i thought he would have folded.
game continues for a while and everytime i go this guy to the left of me goes and beats me.
ok finally get a really good hand and this guy folds now whats going on here.
i start thinking he's looking at my cards. so i make sure i look at them to my right
now the other is doing it
same thing guy going in with me and folding when i have something.
i'll give an exampe flop i have 1 pair no flush available yet ok turn and possible straight appearing but needs the river so i bet he calls now river card makes the straight a good possibility so i bet big thinking he's only going if he has the straight. he raises me bigger. as this is my first game with these guy i want to see what he's got so i call him. he has 1 pair bigger then mine.
so i asked him why he re-raised me "i didn't think you had the straight"
now i may not be the best poker player in the world but if there had of been a possible straight on the table and i had been him i would have folded.
anyway i learnt a lot and going back next week to clean up.

[presto]

if it looks like people have x-ray specks, do a 'riffle test' - flick the cards like a flick book - if anything on the pattern seems odd - it is. or if anyone is wearing sunglasses - be wary. signalling etc.... though i doupt you would be scammed for E10 - and they probably would have let you win - and upped the stakes next time.

[silax]

well i think it was just a freindly game as the cash suggests but i couldn't believe my luck with the guys either side of me i only ever won a pot when i was in with someone else. about 3 or 4 guys took it very seriously will see what happens in the next few weeks i did wonder why there was an empty chair inbetween those 2 but next time i'll get there early.
also i enjoyed finding out the difference between real players and the internet what surprised me was how hard it was to read opponents live compared with online.

[presto]

i am totally the opposit.
i have only played a few lots of live games against different opposition, but found people very easy to read, and picked up loads of tells after only a short time (checked them out to ensure theory was correct) eyes, twitches, hand movement, bets etc..... you just cant do that with internet players - and i am clueless against the scandies.
but it sound's like a good laugh.

[mathare]

I have played a good number of home games and usually finish out ahead. But these games are more about drinking till the early hours than the cards so I have never bothered about reading people, tells etc. It's usually mates of mine playing so I know their level of experience and from that I can judge what they think a good hand would be in the circumstances. But you also have to remember that for low stakes not many people are going to be pushed off a pot.

We tend to play pot-limit hold'em and I usually build up a pot on the first two rounds of betting before firing big bets in on the turn and/or river to take a pot down. But booze gives some people balls to call bets they wouldn't ordinarily call and makes other shy away from it so I guess it helps to know the other players.

I do really enjoy live play though and am looking to get some good experience of live play on the tables in Vegas in a few weeks.

[counterfeit]

I play live at least twice a week in the casinos in Leeds and I find it difficult to read the better players but that's the way it should be. The monkeys who turn up every week and lose have no idea about the signals they give out.

One of the most telling "tells" live is when a novice leans over the table - at least 90% of the time, they've got a hand.

If they lean back in their chair they are either bluffing or playing to a draw.

Personally, I always lean back in my chair and only lean over the table to confuse to the better players.

I am quite a tight player (tight aggressive) and very aware of my image. It means I can can win lots of bluffed hands as all the regulars think I am tight and only play good hands.

To be honest Ed, I don't think you were getting scammed as the money wasn't worth it but the two either side might have been making sure they didn't play against each other and as you were a newbie they might have been testing you out by taking it in turns to take you on.

Also, you might have some very obvious tells to those guys. If you want to keep the tells to a minimum wear shades, listen to your ipod, don't move around after the cards have been dealt, ensure you do everything the same in every hand (in other words don't call quicker than normal, don't start scratching your face, do make sure your hands don't shake etc) and finally and most importantly, never show your cards unless you have to. Showing your cards is a great tell because it shows if you are a bluffer or tight.

Mat - good luck in Vegas - plenty of sharks there but plenty of tourists to fleece as well. You just need to find the right table.

[mathare]

Mat - good luck in Vegas - plenty of sharks there but plenty of tourists to fleece as well. You just need to find the right table.

Any tips on where to play? I'm only looking at play low stakes limit for a bit of fun and experience. We're out there during the WSOP so I can't decide whether the average skill level at the low stakes cash tables will go up or down. Could be interesting though

[paul183195]

enjoyed this read silax - keep us informed how you get on . mathare fly the win2win flag in vegas & make em av it good luck

[counterfeit]

Mat - most of the casinos have low level tables but as you state you play mainly limit try the Aladdin or MGM Grand - both have lots of low stakes limit tables. The problem with going during the WSOP is actually finding somewhere where there isn't a WSOP event going on or isn't full of people who've been knocked out of their event.

I would only play tourneys during WSOP - cash games could be a disaster as the standard of play will be incredible.

Things to do in Vegas during WSOP - go watch the $4k/$8k blinds cash games at the Bellagio - absolutely amazing to see players like Phil Ivey, Jennifer Harman, Erik Siedel etc betting $1m per hand. Scared the out of me and I make a living from playing the game.

If only I could get to that standard.

[mathare]

We're staying at the Aladdin (now Planet Hollywood) so I will try and get some games in there

[silax]

thanks for the info guys
will keep you informed how it goes to tell you the truth i think i was completly overawed by the whole thing first game and all that. and yes very difficult to push people out there were loads of times when the guy next to the big blind raised and virtually everybody followed brfore the flop best tactics for playing this would be tight i guess your thoughts are welcome. i think about 4 of the players take it very seriously.

[silax]

big night tomorrow
was talking to my mate (who was there with me) and we were talking about tells etc. and he said there is one called happy feet when somebody has the dogs boloxs they tap there feet i remember the guy to my left did this so i've got him now hehe

[counterfeit]

I just want to add my story from Friday night. I came second in our local casino but should have won. I made a huge mistake when misinterpreting a tell.

We got to heads up and I was behind in chips. All night the other lad had been bluffing and I could pick up his bluffs because every time he had a good hand he raised 4 times the big blind pre flop and 3 times BB when he was bluffing.

So, he raised me 3 times BB and I had 88 (pretty big heads up) - I just went straight over the top all in and he instantly called. He had KK. End of game.

So, for all my advice about tell - sometimes you can get it wrong. It cost me £385 that bad decision.

Anyway, Eddie, good luck for tomorrow.

[mathare]

Silax - ignore a lot of the physical tells and concentrate on the verbals.

Consider a few of the following:

• If there is a conversation happening around the time of the deal and someone looks at their cards and stops talking they will be playing their hand
• If someone looks at their hand and continues the converstion as normal they are folding
• If someone starts a new conversation after looking at their hand they are folding
• If someone looks at their hole cards and starts the big "don't even think about stealing my blinds" speech they are asking to be robbed and will lay down their hand because they have a weak hand

Also watch for people fingering their chips and looking as if they want to pass their cards out of turn. Start to act and then stop and look around. Games have a natural rhythm and you've just broken it so the guy 2 seats to your left who has picked up 72o and wants to throw it thought he'd be able to do so in about 5 seconds but now he has to wait a little longer. Yet he has already put his cards together and probabky grabbed them by one corner to toss back to the dealer. Similarly anyone picking up chips out of turn is probably looking to play this pot.

I think you're better focussing on such pre-flop situations for tells as you can then know more when to steal etc than worrying about too many post-flop tells.

[counterfeit]

Mat

I agree with most of your advice except the picking up chips thing. I am constantly picking up my chips before the action gets to me. However, I have noticed that it si a defintite tell of loose players as they can't wait to throw the chips in so make a grab for them well before their turn.

Actually, I must be a nightmare to read pre flop because sometimes I don't look at my cards until it is time to act, sometimes I lay my cards out next to each other whether I am playing or folding, sometimes I pick up my chips and I never talk to anybody between the cards being dealt and it being my turn to act as I am always too busy watching every other player to concentrate on a conversation.

[silax]

11 out of 11 hmm not really sure what to make of it.
near the start virtually everybody goes in when you raise preflop almost impossible to get people to fold.
anyway i was doing ok ish my one good hand had to be split with someone who hit the same straight on the flop.
to top my night off i have kk i go in quite big and woohoo only have 4 others left i think so flop comes rag rag rag no flush chance poor chance of a straigh highest card 10 so i'm all in some one goes in with me turns ove A6 o
turn is nothing river is A. how did i know that was coming.
and everybody says to this muppet well played. gonna have a rethink over tactics for next week.
it seem pretty impossible to bluff people out on this table and if you don't bet high you get 7 or 8 people wanting to see the flop my bet with kk was the biggest preflop of the night and 4 people still stuck around with nothing is this normal.

[mathare]

to top my night off i have kk i go in quite big and woohoo only have 4 others left i think so flop comes rag rag rag no flush chance poor chance of a straigh highest card 10 so i'm all in some one goes in with me turns ove A6 o
turn is nothing river is A. how did i know that was coming.
and everybody says to this muppet well played. gonna have a rethink over tactics for next week.

No tactical change needed I wouldn't say. The guy was taking a risk and you played the hand well from what I can tell. He just drew out on you and these things happen but you got your money in when you were ahead.

it seem pretty impossible to bluff people out on this table and if you don't bet high you get 7 or 8 people wanting to see the flop my bet with kk was the biggest preflop of the night and 4 people still stuck around with nothing is this normal.

It's not normal but it's both a nightmare and a godsend. Forget trying to bluff and just play solid, tight poker. These guys will call you down if you bluff so don't bother. And with that many people sticking around with nothing start making bigger bets with big hands. Forget 3-4 times the big blind as a pre-flop raise and go 7-8 times the BB if that is the only way to reduce the field. They will pay you off handsomely on big hands that hold up but you have to be prepared to take bigger risks in terms of bigger bets and raises

[silax]

ok matt i think my tactic for next monday will be to play very tight but big if i get 2 good cards. then if the flop shows me in a good position big again or fold if not. if i'm still looking ok after the turn big again and see what happens from there.
looks like next monday my game will only be about 3 hands for the first couple of hours but hey only pays 4 places so 5th to 11th is exactly the same. looking at the play last night it only really starts to become a proper game untill down to 6 or 7 players.
most of them are looking at me as if i'm a novice anyway now so that should help.

[silax]

couldn't make it tonight got something on and will also miss next week :(

[reks_ee]

poker forever :)