FA Cup

[scoobydoo]

Is it all over yet? Leeds played well today but United looked a shambles at times, I wish some of the second string players were as good as Fergie thinks they are. Of all the teams to lose to at home.

[chancer]

The back 4 need games, all are just back from injury. Wellbeck and obertan need confidence and time. Gibson and Berbatov needs to go. Anderson and rooney can't do it on their own. Very dissapointed in the result but Leeds upped their game - guess that's just the cup

[Win2Win]

What a GGRrrrrrrreat game :D

[peza2605]

I'll tell you why we lost and im being serious or at least im beginning to believe it,its all to do with where i work.

Bear in mind i work in walsall and there are about 12 people that do nights, out of them 12 there is a villa fan (lost to them), a FULHAM fan (lost to them), a liverpool fan (havent beaten them since he started there), chelsea (lost) and a leeds fan who started 2 weeks ago!!

Now i might be being a tad paranoid but i think theres some sort of curse going on, theres a birmingham fan there too and we've got them saturday, im going to stick £200 on a birmingham win and hire a priest with the winnings to excorcise(sp) the place.

Apart from all that credit to leeds the totally deserved it and it could have been 3-0, i just hope they make up for this against city because that was embarrassing.

[MattR]

Surely he'll now player the full team against Man City? Obertan and Wellbeck look a shadow of what you expect a Man Utd player to be. I don't think Gibson is half as good as he thinks he is and Neville is on the way out now. Seemed a strange decision to take Anderson off instead of Gibson as well. I thought Anderson and Rooney were the only two likely to make anything happen.

Not quite sure what's happening this season but maybe it's the fact of more and more clubs having wealthy owners and the top players are beginning to be spread around a bit more rather than all at 4 or 5 top European sides??

[mathare]

Surely he'll now player the full team against Man City?

I reckon you're right here Matt. Was this the first time they have gone out at this stage in the Fergie era? Now they can't win the FA Cup he'll want the Carling Cup in the bag won't he?

Obertan and Wellbeck look a shadow of what you expect a Man Utd player to be. I don't think Gibson is half as good as he thinks he is and Neville is on the way out now.

The youth players that have come through in the past few years are nowhere near as good as former crops. I haven't seen that much of Welbeck really. He looks a Premiership player but not a Man Utd player from what I have seen. Gibson doesn't look like he could become a regular either. Evans is alright but not in the running when they have all their first choice defenders fit. Neville is past it now, yep. Obertan is fast but seems to have little else going for him. When Valencia came on he had a massive impact on the game down that wing.

Seemed a strange decision to take Anderson off instead of Gibson as well. I thought Anderson and Rooney were the only two likely to make anything happen.

I quite agree. I think it's telling that even now Man Utd have to rely on Giggs at times, even coming off the bench. You'd think they would be able to replace him by now.

[chancer]

Bloody hell Peza, you jinx, just bully that brummie into quitting before we play them

[MattR]

I reckon you're right here Matt. Was this the first time they have gone out at this stage in the Fergie era? Now they can't win the FA Cup he'll want the Carling Cup in the bag won't he?

Not sure, was the Bournemouth defeat the third round or not?

I think he has to go for the Carling Cup, surely he can't afford to lose to two bitter rivals in a week by not playing the best team available? Or maybe he'd prefer to lose to City with a weakened team than put the strongest available out and lose! He was certainly not happy in the interview yesterday and I think the hairdryer had been on full blast!

[scoobydoo]

Not sure, was the Bournemouth defeat the third round or not?

Bournemouth was 84, before Fergie. I think up to yesterday Fergie & Wenger were both unbeaten in the 3rd round of the FA Cup, alas no more.

[MattR]

Oh that's right yeah, Atkinson was in charge then. As they mentioned yesterday

[scoobydoo]

Oh that's right yeah, Atkinson was in charge then. As they mentioned yesterday

:D I heard it on the radio I think. I was sort of feeling a bit better yesterday afternoon thinking Arsenal were going out, filled in my spreadsheet for 5 minutes and looked at score...turned it off. :)

[John]

But he did complain about the lack of injury time added, describing the five minutes as "an insult to the game"


He questioned referee Chris Foy's timekeeping and stated: "That is an insult to the game and the players out there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...td/8438639.stm


He's still criticising refs! It's getting a bit out of order now.

[chancer]

Fergie knows his players are low on confidence and by critising the ref deflects attention away from them a bit. Knocking the players confidence any lower won't help. Brown is getting slaughtered everywhere today. One bad game doesn't make him useless.

[John]

Yeah, Brown is actually half-decent.

He's no Ronny Johnsen or Jaap Stam or Rio Ferdinand or Mikael Silvestre. But he's alright.

[scoobydoo]

. Brown is getting slaughtered everywhere today. One bad game doesn't make him useless.

He looked useless yesterday at times, but you're right he is far from useless. It was just a shocking display and they didn't look up for it from the start to me. They'll be up for it on Wednesday night, they will need to be.

[MattR]

Was he doubtful for the game and only drafted in because of the injury to Vidic or was he just going to be rested?

[scoobydoo]

Was he doubtful for the game and only drafted in because of the injury to Vidic or was he just going to be rested?

Not sure Matt, you suspect that if that was a league game, Vidic would've played but you can never be sure.Brown hasn't played that many games lately so he may well have not been fit enough to play. Managers of the so called 'top 4' are playing a bit of Russian Roulette though aren't they with team selections for the FA Cup, Wenger only just got away with it yesterday. The fact is for those teams, the FA Cup is the 3rd priority now, which is rather sad isn't it. If the FA were to put up about £15 million for winning it, you see how the team selections would change.

[chancer]

Most of the fringe players need these games to improve. United's back 4 were all just back from injury and aren't fully match fit. Arsenal want to give their players experience and the cup seems like as good a time as any. Arsenal have blooded lots of the younger players this way for years.

United need a leader in midfield badly. Rooney has to keep dropping back to do it. I'd like to see Rooney play as an attacking midfielder with 2 strikers ahead of him and a holding midfielder behind. He could be like Scholes in his prime

[mathare]

United need a leader in midfield badly. Rooney has to keep dropping back to do it. I'd like to see Rooney play as an attacking midfielder with 2 strikers ahead of him and a holding midfielder behind. He could be like Scholes in his prime

I've thought for a couple of years now that Rooney would be better as an attacking mid rather than as a striker. How Fergie sees Owen and Rooney as carbon copies of one another I will never know. Rooney tracks back and comes deep way more often then Owen who is more of a poacher

[scoobydoo]

Most of the fringe players need these games to improve. United's back 4 were all just back from injury and aren't fully match fit. Arsenal want to give their players experience and the cup seems like as good a time as any. Arsenal have blooded lots of the younger players this way for years.

Yes...as I said it is sad that a once great cup competition should have ended up this way, imho.

[MattR]

I guess the only way to 're' value it is to make it a champions league place for the winners (but not the runner's up - perhaps Europa Lge for them if winners already in top 3 in the league) If a team in the top 3 wins the FA Cup then the 4th place gets the final champs lge place as now. If nothing else it would make the rest of the Premier teams take it seriously.

I've never understood why managers don't play a near full team, get ahead then take off those players they want to rest, rather than start with a weak side and then have to throw on the top players to try to salvage something. As you said Rick, Arsenal did it too, once Diaby and Nasri came on Arsenal took control and looked like scoring with every attack. I can appreciate the managers want to give the fringe and young players a game but ifthey go out of the competition they won't get to play anyway!

I think the most appalling example was Bolton playing a reserve team in the UEFA cup quarter final against Athletico Madrid. All that money spent by fans to go over there, the chance of reaching the semi's and they play a reserve team What's the point of qualifying for the tournament in the first place??

Maybe the answer is to be like Spain where the 2nd teams of the big sides play in Segunda 2. I believe they cannot be promoted as well. This would be ideal for the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd. I guess for it to happen they'd have to start out in the non leagues though to make it fair.


I agree with the thoughts on Rooney too. He has it all and where that comment about Ferguson seeing Owen as a carbon copy came from was beyond me Even at his best Owen was not a lot more than a lethal finisher. Put him around the box and he makes superb runs and turns up in the right spot but he was never a link up player or someone to drop deep and get involved. That miskick yesterday though is far from the first this season. He'd have buried that easily in the past.

[mathare]

Maybe the answer is to be like Spain where the 2nd teams of the big sides play in Segunda 2. I believe they cannot be promoted as well. This would be ideal for the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd. I guess for it to happen they'd have to start out in the non leagues though to make it fair.

Other European leagues have that system too don't they? I think Germany has reserve sides playing in the lower leagues but it might be the third division rather than the second. The problem with that in this country is the sheer depth of our football league (and non-league)structure, something that isn't a problem in other countries. Nowhere else has anything like 92 professional clubs, and some of the non-league sides are professional too plus there are semi-pro sides. So where would Arsenal Reserves start? At the county level like AFC Wimbledon? It would be several years before they are playing at a decent standard and how many Arsenal reserve players are going to play at that level rather than go out on loan to another league side? It's a nice idea but I think are football structure is too deep for it to work. If Arsenal Reserves were allowed to join in the Football League, even League Two, there would be riots as they would be denying another professional club a spot in the League and thus alienating a section of the population whose local club that is. I think Man Utd had the right idea with their Belgian feeder club - send the young lads out there to play at a reasonable, but not too taxing, standard and get some experience.

Even at his best Owen was not a lot more than a lethal finisher. Put him around the box and he makes superb runs and turns up in the right spot but he was never a link up player or someone to drop deep and get involved. That miskick yesterday though is far from the first this season. He'd have buried that easily in the past.

Forget his injuries and what have you, he's just not the same player he was is he? Even when fully fit for United he looks a poor shadow of his former self.

[scoobydoo]

Maybe Fergie said that about Owen so it would stop questions about him putting Owen in the team, if Rooney is fit he can't play in the managers thinking? But he isn't good enough anymore, I agree. He does seem to miskick too many times these days.

I wonder if Arsenal will let Diaby go for a couple of million??? :)

[peza2605]

Bloody hell Peza, you jinx, just bully that brummie into quitting before we play them

im gonna sit on him.