Turbo Lays

For those of you who understand laying then you will know it is actually harder to profit from losers than it is from winners. This is because that you need to take off the betting exchange commission, on top of that you are also paying out on odds over SP (known as overbet). By the time you’ve done the maths you’ll find that most laying services run at a loss, even though they will show you a profit, as they are not including the comms or overbet.

I used to supply selections on here called Pro-Losers, which produced very good profits, but when the bookmakers and traders moved into the markets in big numbers the way the market was built changed considerably, and the profits dropped to the point of only breaking even if you were lucky. So I stopped them around 2007.

Since then I’ve still been successfully laying, and the systems I sell, like Layem, are still showing good profits this year. However, the secret to really good laying is high turnover, as profits are usually around the 1%-5% region. That means the Return on Investment (ROI) , the profit is 1p to 5p in the £. This does not sound very high, but for laying that is a good margin, the bookmakers only make about 1% ROI and look how much they make a year.

So the best way to take advantage of a low ROI is to have a high turnover, not with higher stakes, but with small stakes but a lot of selections. Last year I found the time to do some extensive research and came up with 3 techniques that produce high turnover and good profits. I’ve been using them live for 9 months with great success, and results prior to going live showed consistent profits.

So I’ve decided to put them up on the forum for a few weeks as a trial. There are 3 lists and more details are supplied below. Eventually they will be supplied to members only if they catch on.

List 1: The odds cut-off on the exchanges for these is <=12. So any selections given that do not fit into that price band are void. These are the decimal prices you see on the exchanges, do not add 1 for the stake.

List 2: The odds need to be 13.0 or lower, anything above is void.

List 3: The odds need to be 11.5 or lower, anything above is void.

It is preferable to put the bets on race-by-race, however putting a few on in advance on busy days doesn’t cause a problem. A number of bots are available these days to place bets.

Betting Bank

It is very important that you have a betting bank if you wish to make a profit from gambling, and it is also best to have a new betting exchange account with these as you will have so many selections you may lose track of anything else you are doing, and it makes it easier to monitor profit and loss.

The lowest I would recommend starting with is £50 with £1 stakes. This is slightly higher risk, and £100 to £1 is better. To bet at this level you need an account with BETDAQ – Click Here

Once your Betdaq account gets to £300, switch the money over to BETFAIR, as you will get lower prices over the long term.

For those who can start with the best bank to get you going, £200 at £2 an account with Betfair is a must - Click Here

Do not start any higher than this, you need to prove to yourself that you can profit.

Stake Increase

To keep it simple, and build more safety into the bank as it grows, each time the bank increase by the initial starting bank you increase stakes by 50% of the initial stake. So the more profits you make, the safer your bank becomes. So if you start with £200 with a £2 initial stake and the betting bank reaches £400, you increase your stake by 50% of the initial £2 stake which is £1, so your new stake is now £3. When it reaches £600 you increase £1 again to make it £4 and so on.

Stake Decrease

Although rare, it can happen that your bank over a week or two of bad results can take a very large hit. Before you start laying decide on the cutoffs you will use in case this happens. The norm is 50% OR 66%. So if your bank drops 50%, you reduce stakes by 50%, or if you prefer use 66%, then when the bank drops that amount you reduce stakes by 66%. If you ever hit this trigger, the countdown to the next decrease starts from that point.

Q&A

I do win betting and a selection I have is also on the Turbo Lay list, what should I do?
Technically they are both separate betting banks, so you should back and lay the selection. This may seem weird, but we are looking at long term profit not what happens race-by-race. However, if you are not comfortable with that, the ROI on wins bets is usually higher, so void the lay.

When I go on the betting exchange if the odds for a horse on List 2 for example are 13.5, do I place an order?
No. The simplest thing to do is go into the market, put the lays on within the price range and void any others. This method shows good profits so no need to bother trying to get the best price or waiting for those out of the ranges to move into them.

I don’t know how to lay?
You will find all you need to know on Betfair & Betdaq. Laying just means you use the pink boxes on the betting exchanges.

Do I lower stakes after a bad run?
No. Keep them as they are otherwise you will not benefit from the recovery. As an example I dropped £2,500 in one day, which was 10% of the betting bank. Leaving the stakes as they were the following day I made it all back again. If I had reduced stakes it would have taken a few days to make the losses back rather than one. However, refer to Stake Decrease above for the times your betting bank takes a big hit, as it is not unknown for a betting bank when laying to take a 80% hit over a few days.

My results do not match everyone else’s.
This is normal, as it is all down to the time people put the bets on, and what the markets are doing. Don’t worry about it, just continue with the way you are doing it. Some days you may make a loss while others profit, this is normal when laying so many selections.

I am unable to do the lays race-by-race due to work.
In order to cover the liabilities, especially when starting off you would need a big bank to cover all the bets, so it is probably best to stick to night racing and weekends when starting off until your bank is big enough to put on a whole afternoon’s worth. I would also not advise putting the bets on before midday.

So if I lay a horse at 13.0 with a £1 stake, and the horse wins, how much do I lose?
You would lose 13 minus 1 point for the stake which makes it 12. 12 * £1 = £12 which would be your loss. This would seem large if you only have a £50 bank, and it is, but they do not win that often, and the total loss is usually offset a bit by other lays in the same race.

I have the same horse in each list, do I lay it 3 times?
Yes. You must put on 3 lay bets.

Do I run a seperate betting bank for each list?
You combine the lists and run them from the same betting bank.


When checking the prices do I use the win or lay price?
Always use the WIN price.

I am making a lot more money on List 2, should I just do that one?
No, do all lists, it all helps increase turnover and profits. Turnover helps reduce your betting exchange commission. You will have more losing days on List 1 than List 2/3, but you will have long term profits on both lists. If you wish, you can run seperate banks for each list.

Will I profit every month?
I can't see the future but statistically you will have the odd losing month, although running the 3 lists one losing list for a month is sometimes offset by the other profiting. The only real hit you would take is when both lists lose in the same month which doesn't happen that often.


Previous Results

Just a basic list of this year’s monthly results to give you an idea. You will have the odd losing month, but not many.

Result do not included deducted commission.

List 1 (SR 88%):
Average win odds: 5.5
2008: +356
2009: + 299
2010: + 211
Jan: -17pts
Feb: +16pts
Mar: -2pts
Apr: +69pts
May: +134pts
June: +3pts
July: -33pts


List 2 (SR 82%):
Average win odds: 4.2
2008: +390
2009: + 813
2010: + 666
Jan: +100pts
Feb: +126pts
Mar: +82pts
Apr: +125pts
May: +160pts
June: -13pts
July: +13pts


List 3 (SR 85%):
Average win odds: 6.1
2008: +218
2009: + 593
2010: + 572
Jan: +85pts
Feb: +1pts
Mar: +65pts
Apr: +7pts
May: +82pts
June: +73pts
July: +91pts



The Strike Rates above are the overall SR per runner. On a per race basis the SR is about 70%. Losing days average around 2 a week. The positive thing about losing days is that it still helps with lowering your long term commission.

** Remember, this is a TRIAL. If you do use real money keep it to that advised, and please publish your own profit/loss results to help others.


WARNING: Lay betting can be very volatile. Large swings in your betting bank are normal.


TURBO LAYS: LIST 1: 4.5 TO 12.5

13:35 , Lin , George Woolf

13:45 , Chs , Amethyst Dawn
13:45 , Chs , Captain Ramius
13:45 , Chs , Glenridding
13:45 , Chs , Lucky Numbers
13:45 , Chs , San Cassiano
13:45 , Chs , Syrian

13:55 , Not , Miss Noble
13:55 , Not , Samasana

14:05 , Lin , Red Socks

14:20 , Chs , Maqaraat
14:20 , Chs , Tinkertown

14:30 , Not , Mr Maximas
14:30 , Not , Why So Serious

14:40 , Lin , Diamond Johnny G
14:40 , Lin , Estonia
14:40 , Lin , Rocker
14:40 , Lin , Solemn

14:55 , Chs , Fanditha

15:05 , Not , Birdwatcher
15:05 , Not , Cuban Piece

15:15 , Lin , Lightning Spirit

15:30 , Chs , Ballista
15:30 , Chs , Bold Bidder
15:30 , Chs , Scarlet Rocks

15:40 , Not , Azurinta
15:40 , Not , Daliana
15:40 , Not , Serial Sinner

15:50 , Lin , Rock With You

16:05 , Chs , Bailadeira
16:05 , Chs , Daisyclipper
16:05 , Chs , Stravsambition

16:15 , Not , Hits Only Jude
16:15 , Punchestown , Another Palm
16:15 , Punchestown , Ballymak
16:15 , Punchestown , Bronte Bay
16:15 , Punchestown , Drybrook Bedouin
16:15 , Punchestown , Elysian Rock
16:15 , Punchestown , Glenstal Abbey
16:15 , Punchestown , Hangover
16:15 , Punchestown , Imaalhall
16:15 , Punchestown , Inoma James
16:15 , Punchestown , Long Strand
16:15 , Punchestown , Pontiac
16:15 , Punchestown , Rocco's Hall
16:15 , Punchestown , The Hard Hat
16:15 , Punchestown , The Real Tyson
16:15 , Punchestown , Warhead

16:25 , Lin , Focail Eile

16:40 , Chs , Imperial Djay
16:40 , Chs , Majuro
16:40 , Chs , Malcheek
16:40 , Chs , Mr Macattack
16:40 , Chs , Norville
16:40 , Chs , Solar Spirit
16:40 , Chs , Swiss Cross

16:50 , Not , Jonnie Skull
16:50 , Not , Libertino

16:55 , Punchestown , Ad Idem
16:55 , Punchestown , Aigle D'or
16:55 , Punchestown , Arabella Boy
16:55 , Punchestown , Beau Michael
16:55 , Punchestown , Bob Lingo
16:55 , Punchestown , Sebadee
16:55 , Punchestown , Shoreacres
16:55 , Punchestown , Swing Bill
16:55 , Punchestown , Tharawaat
16:55 , Punchestown , The Hurl
16:55 , Punchestown , Torphichen

17:00 , Lin , Diplomatic
17:00 , Lin , Ensnare
17:00 , Lin , West Leake

17:10 , Chs , Dahaam
17:10 , Chs , Dynamic Drive
17:10 , Chs , Sir Boss

17:15 , Ain , Pergamon

17:20 , Asc , Buzz Law
17:20 , Asc , Samurai Sword
17:20 , Asc , She Ain't A Saint

17:35 , Lin , Complicate
17:35 , Lin , In Babylon

17:50 , Asc , Florestans Match

18:00 , Ham , Distant Sun
18:00 , Ham , Dower Glen
18:00 , Ham , King Of Swords
18:00 , Ham , Royal Blade
18:00 , Ham , Straboe

18:10 , Rip , Hartforth

18:15 , Ain , Amroth Bay
18:15 , Ain , Andreo Bambaleo
18:15 , Ain , Kauto Relko
18:15 , Ain , Livvy Inn
18:15 , Ain , Mr Supreme
18:15 , Ain , Quickbeam
18:15 , Ain , Silver Accord
18:15 , Ain , Willandrich

18:25 , Asc , Creme Anglaise
18:25 , Asc , Formal Dining
18:25 , Asc , Trend Line

18:35 , Ham , Carlitos Spirit
18:35 , Ham , Glenluji
18:35 , Ham , Hettie Hubble
18:35 , Ham , Rosbertini

18:40 , Punchestown , Alajan
18:40 , Punchestown , Bravely Fought
18:40 , Punchestown , Days Hotel
18:40 , Punchestown , Glenstar
18:40 , Punchestown , Great Value
18:40 , Punchestown , Joe Smooth
18:40 , Punchestown , Realt Mor
18:40 , Punchestown , Wood Lily

18:45 , Rip , Feeling Fresh
18:45 , Rip , Lady Florence
18:45 , Rip , Red Cape

18:50 , Ain , Kikos
18:50 , Ain , Peplum

19:05 , Ham , Playful Girl

19:10 , Punchestown , Blazing Sonnet
19:10 , Punchestown , Flaming Pop
19:10 , Punchestown , Golden Firebird
19:10 , Punchestown , Katesgem
19:10 , Punchestown , Maygal Lady
19:10 , Punchestown , Minnie Maguire
19:10 , Punchestown , Miss Accurate
19:10 , Punchestown , One More Cookie
19:10 , Punchestown , Our Ellie B
19:10 , Punchestown , Ourbeautifuldream
19:10 , Punchestown , Patsy Cline
19:10 , Punchestown , She Ranks Me
19:10 , Punchestown , Wontbelongnow

19:15 , Rip , White Diamond

19:35 , Asc , Kayef
19:35 , Asc , Parhelion
19:35 , Asc , Salontyre

19:40 , Ham , Antoniola
19:40 , Ham , Lord Raglan
19:40 , Ham , Scarab

19:45 , Punchestown , Boxer Georg
19:45 , Punchestown , Cork All Star
19:45 , Punchestown , Farmer Grant
19:45 , Punchestown , Newbay Prop
19:45 , Punchestown , Offshore Account
19:45 , Punchestown , Optimum Force
19:45 , Punchestown , The Snuffler
19:45 , Punchestown , Unanswered
19:45 , Punchestown , Wood Work

19:50 , Rip , Decadence
19:50 , Rip , Roman Ruler

20:00 , Ain , Cailin Na Ri
20:00 , Ain , Culcabock
20:00 , Ain , Dune Shine
20:00 , Ain , Natural Action
20:00 , Ain , Tobago Bay

20:10 , Asc , Above Limits

20:15 , Ham , Blind Stag
20:15 , Ham , The Nifty Duchess
20:15 , Ham , Vintage Grape

20:25 , Rip , Grey Command
20:25 , Rip , Tayarat
20:25 , Rip , Terenzium

20:35 , Ain , Lady Gongar
20:35 , Ain , Set In Her Ways

20:45 , Ham , Arch Walker


TURBO LAYS: LIST 2: <13.0


13:35 , Lin , Arabian Star ***

13:45 , Chs , Joseph Henry ***
13:45 , Chs , Lowther ***
13:45 , Chs , Pintura ***

13:55 , Not , Miss Noble ***
13:55 , Not , Night Angel ***
13:55 , Not , Raspberry Fizz ***
13:55 , Not , Samasana ***

14:05 , Lin , Tioman Legend ***

14:20 , Chs , The Paddyman ***
14:20 , Chs , Tinkertown ***

14:30 , Not , Dragon Slayer ***
14:30 , Not , Mr Maximas ***
14:30 , Not , Pattern Mark ***

14:40 , Lin , Piazza San Pietro ***

14:55 , Chs , Allied Powers ***
14:55 , Chs , Fanditha ***

15:05 , Not , Cuban Piece ***
15:05 , Not , Szabo's Destiny ***

15:15 , Lin , Casternova ***
15:15 , Lin , Hugely Exciting ***
15:15 , Lin , Rafaaf ***

15:30 , Chs , Face The Problem ***
15:30 , Chs , Julius Geezer ***

15:40 , Not , Our Gal ***
15:40 , Not , Saskia's Dream ***
15:40 , Not , Traffic Sister ***
15:40 , Punchestown , Moynalveylad***
15:40 , Punchestown , Walkonabubble ***

16:05 , Chs , Cheherazad ***
16:05 , Chs , Heatherbird ***
16:05 , Chs , Layla Jamil ***

16:15 , Not , Hydrant ***
16:15 , Not , The Lock Master ***
16:15 , Punchestown , Fair Along ***
16:15 , Punchestown , Some Target ***

16:25 , Lin , Leelu ***
16:25 , Lin , The Big Haerth ***

16:40 , Chs , Malcheek ***

16:55 , Punchestown , Aura About You ***

17:00 , Lin , Chief Exec ***
17:00 , Lin , Striding Edge ***
17:00 , Lin , West Leake ***

17:10 , Chs , Destinys Dream ***

17:15 , Ain , Neltara ***
17:15 , Ain , Phoenix Flight ***

17:35 , Lin , In Babylon ***
17:35 , Lin , Midnight Trader ***

17:45 , Ain , Ruthenoise ***

18:15 , Ain , Kauto Relko ***

18:35 , Ham , Bold Marc ***
18:35 , Ham , Casino Night ***
18:35 , Ham , Muftarres ***

18:40 , Punchestown , Celtic Folklore ***
18:40 , Punchestown , Joe Smooth ***

18:50 , Ain , Fiftyonefiftyone ***
18:50 , Ain , Knockavilla ***
18:50 , Ain , Moon Over Miami ***

19:10 , Punchestown , Maygal Lady ***

19:25 , Ain , Aggie's lad ***
19:25 , Ain , Hemington ***
19:25 , Ain , I Have Dreamed ***

19:40 , Ham , Gala Casino Star ***
19:40 , Ham , High Resolution ***
19:40 , Ham , Lord Raglan ***
19:40 , Ham , Munsarim ***

19:45 , Punchestown , Gone To Lunch ***
19:45 , Punchestown , Optimum Force ***
19:45 , Punchestown , Snowy Morning ***

20:00 , Ain , Arctic Wings ***
20:00 , Ain , Tobago Bay ***

20:35 , Ain , Lady Gongar ***
20:35 , Ain , Splendid Blue ***
20:35 , Ain , Wild Child Lucy ***

20:45 , Ham , Klynch ***
20:45 , Ham , Northern Bolt ***